so right now i have a jdm b18c(sir-g) in my 99 civic coupe, and im looking to start an all motor build soon and am gathering parts. the main thing I'm unsure about is the block. i def want more displacement but I'm leery of a b20 block. i know many people say they are fine but im still unsure. this is my daily so i really cant afford to finally get a motor together and in, and then crack a sleeve or throw a rod and have to rebuild it. so what do you guys think would be more reliable as a daily, 82x89 lsvtec, or 84-84.5x89 b20vtec. i would def like to make 220-230. i would be using the head off my current motor which has a skunk2 manifold, highend header, and i also have a full 2.5 inch exhaust. i would be adding full valvetrain, bloc type c cams, 68mm throttle body, injectors, etc etc. another question i have is would just a 3 angle valve job be enough to support the power im looking for or would i need a port and polish as well? thanks in advance guys.

 

i think you need to do more research before embarking on a reliable dd that puts out 220+whp

 

co-sign

Read the FAQs then come back

 

Making 220 reliable hp is not as easy as you think, if it was everyone would do it. You will need to port the head and get a sweet set of cams and valve train to support . The stock sleeve b20 block is fine if built correctly and tuned correctly its the same as the b18 block, if you build it wrong they both go boom.the b20 will make your horsepower much easier than the 82mm b18 due to the increased displacement.keep in mind 220 RELIABLE hp is not cheap.

 

Neither...

 

believe me guys, ive done research, and know it won't be cheap. and I'm def trying to do it right. hell ive had cams and valvetrain sitting in my garage for a year collecting dust cuz im trying to get all the parts together so i can do this right. ive def been leaning towards b20vtec the whole time as id really like to have a 2.0 liter all motor setup. its just hard deciding since there are so many mixed reviews all over the web.

 

If built and tuned properly they can be as reliable as any motor that came from factory.

 

I can agree to an extent, but based on the WHP target? No way...I would love to see a 220+whp build exist that has lasted 200k+ miles with basic maintenance.

 

I'm pretty sure a 220+ WHP car can/will last up to 200,000 miles. Most of the times these motors aren't driven as much and they were built to race. As with any other motor, you race the hell out of it, eventually it's going to break down. Although you are right, I have never seen or heard of one breaking the 200K mark.

 

if you want reliable 220whp go buy a kia forte, any time you start mixing and matching parts from other car's on old motors with the intent to beat the **** out of it (lets face it, your not building it to drive around like an old man) you are going to break things, consistently, and constantly.

 

lol. like any of us gonna drive a 220WHP car like we would drive a stock LS motor..

come on

chances are your foot gonna get really heavy.

 

I know of multiple 81.5x89mm 200+ whp lsv's with over 100k miles. But of course thats only half of what your saying lol.

 

Anyone that asks how reliable something can be made or what is the best of anything, typically has not done much, if any research on their own.

 

like i said before, ive done a lot of research. but unfortunately the internet is a million different people saying a million different things. so i thought that maybe i could get some useful opinions on here. but i think ive decided that im just gonna stick with my gsr and either do a 81.5 stock stroke setup, or save up and sleeve it. and either way i might throw on a 100 dry shot and control it through s300. but id only be spraying here and there. but i think its going to just be more reliable to stick with my gsr block.

 

lsv for sure

 

2 liter gsr is worth it

 

Speed, Cheap, Reliable..
Pick 2.

I daily drive a 85x89 setup, stock sleeves, does that mean its good for you? No.. I also drove a 84.5x89 setup for over 2 years, does that mean its good for you? No..


You're asking a very..vague question. Be honest, from the looks of it, you're better off doing a mild lsvtec build or forged bottom end for some nitrous.

I just tuned a "oem" built lsvtec, on a 100 shot of nitrous this pass weekend. Guy's been driving it for awhile on a shitty tune from another shop..


It all depends, on what you're going for.

 

yeah a 2 liter gsr is what id ideally like to do honestly. b20vtec just seemed like a cheaper alternative to that and thats why i was considering it. id just be really worried about putting all that money into building a b20vtec and then cracking a sleeve. sure plenty of people are beating on their b20vtecs daily and they are running strong still. but then there are plenty of people that crack a sleeve after only a thousand miles. at least with a sleeved bottom end i know its solid. and yeah its all in the tune but there is still wayy more of a chance of a b20 block going then a sleeved gsr. i just gotta see if i can afford to sleeve my block. otherwise ill just build my head, do pistons and rods, and spray 100 shot here and there.

 

now heres the person whos response ive been hoping for lol. everytime i see a post from you in someones thread you always have great input. and your setup is actually one of the main ones that had me considering going b20vtec. but the sleeves just really make me nervous. i know yours is going strong, and many other peoples are too, but it still worries me. cuz this will be going in my daily. and not like oh i go to down the street everyday lol. i put minimum 60 miles a day on my car. so id just be really worried about chancing it. why couldn't honda have just made a 2 liter bseries vtec motor! but anyway, what makes you say mild lsv or forged for nitrous seems best for me?

 

because japan gets taxed on displacement
so a honda civic with a 2 liter back then would be pretty expensive and tax would bite the buyer in the ***(in japanland that is)

the insurance and tax is sometimes more than a car is worth.



back in 2004 ive seen a 300zx tein turbo manual targa top with all the options for sale for 2700 bucks with only 30000 kilometers.
asked the guy why so cheap he explained that to get tat car insured and driveable it would cost him double that amount.

be thankfull for the displacement tax because otherwise we would be driving japanese gas guzzling V8s and wont be any different from mustangs.

 

I dont believe in running a massive all motor setup with alot of nitrous.

I believe in a happy medium, I would suggest something mild if you were going to run a 50-75 shot. I'll tell you like this.

If you're worried about the sleeves, you need to be careful who your tuner is, thats all, take more precaution when it comes to which station you fill up at, which gas u run, type of plugs, etc etc.

B20s get a bad rap because so many idiots decided to race someone while they were in 5th gear. They typically are just as strong, but the problem is the metal they are made out of, doesn't resist knock as well as say a GSR sleeve.

I think you'd be perfectly happy with a LSVTEC.. A nice GSR head setup,"Good camshafts", some good supporting bolt ons, some 11.5 pistons, eagle rods, and a 75 shot would easily keep you proud. Just to me, it seems like you're trying to stay within some type of budget and/or part list.

 

yeah i def agree with you about big all motor setup plus a lot of nitrous. if i were to sleeve my gsr or build a b20vtec id be much less likely to run nitrous. but yeah i think im def going to just do forged bottom end with a nice head and a 75 shot or so. just not sure if ill use my gsr block or find an ls. do you think just a nice 3 angle valve job will support the power good enough or should i look into a port and polish as well?

 

I can't believe what I am reading, HT make set ups harder than they actually are. Today 2013 220whp from an b20vtec is very easy to obtain. As long as your patient and pick decent parts your goal can be reached without PP head. So far your on the right course except I would switch the blox cams for tried and true SK2 stage 3s degreed of course. These are the best cams for DD I drive from Ny to SC on the regular with my DD and get 28mpg and make 247whp on 92 octane. Nothing smaller than an 72mm TB and a very good tuner would get you where you want. GL

 

^^^Sweet Jesus I bet that thing is also a blast to drive! Although I will agree in this day and time 200+ whp is attainable much easier than a decade ago with so much trial and error/R&D.

 

I'm running 85x87mm crank in a b20b. (custom longer rod + custom forged pistons)
Stock sleeves. They generate more heat definitely. I use a higher rating thermostat and engage the fan earlier. Gets as warm as 87-89deg C like my old stock B18C type R with stock cooling.

Daily driven. About to hit 50,000km (my odo in km). Engine still doesn't consume oil.

HP numbers are heavily reliant on cam tuning, that's why it's easier to hit 200whp nowdays. So much so, I've seen N/A dyno queens making 250hp, but with poor low/mid.

With DDs, I'd think most people like me, would want low to mid range power, I make about 60-100hp currently at 2-4K, and I hardly ever engage vtec.

With that kind of torque/hp output down low, I hardly ever feel the need, hence my tardiness in actually getting cams and retuning the car for better top end power. But that's what I'm doing now though.

torque wise, a bigger stroker pawns a smaller stroker anyday as a daily. I don't reallly regret destroking a b20b, but if you ask me for a better torque, it's 89mm cranks anyday.

If you want lastability, drive the car stock dude. Modding is always an exercise in reducing reliability for more power gain.
Question is, how much?

Reliability is also dependent on driver.
If you keep revving 8-9K for no good reason, it's pretty obvious that the engine will start wearing out the rings earlier, lose compression and start burning oil earlier.

Personally I'm biased, as I prefer low end torque for daily driven cars, and as such, B20vtec will always be a clear recommendation due to the obvious increase in displacement, which will most definitely result in a hefty increase in low to mid range torque, unless you kill it with too huge a cam/bad cam setting.
(not to mention that in my country, they're dirt cheap too, provided you already have the B16/GSR vtec head.)

And if you drive it like your mom's station wagon, keeping the revs down to sub 4K levels, they pretty much are damn reliable for daily drives.

And as always, when you start building non-standard configuration honda engines. GET IT TUNED properly. It's sad that in this day and age, people still want to build non-standard honda engine configurations and expect them to work with just a bump in fuel pressure and a slight ignition retard at the distributor.

And nitrous? unless you're competing in events that allow such power adders, why even bother? Do you engage nitrous immediately after the entry ramp onto the highway? I see not much point in temporary power adders... unless you're on a tight budget, or competing in an event that allows the use of such power adders.

And as for not breaking down for 200K miles with basic maintainance? Wow, tall order for a modified engine. Heck even stock engines tend to get their rings worn at that kind of mileage.