Hey guys, new to this forum and to my Teggy, now really need help. Today I was doing some driving and I filled up some gas, about 6 gallons. Needle was hitting the 3/4 full mark, felt pretty happy. Drove about 2 miles to a bank and the car shut off while I was doing the atm stuff... tried to start it and it cranks, but doesnt turn over. When the key is turned to the ignition position you can hear the fuel pump prime. Really need help on this. Thanks!!!

 

well im not an expert, still new to my car because it hasnt had any problems, but if it cranks, doesn't that mean it could be the starter or main relay switch?

 

If it was the starter then the car wouldn't crank...

 

Which is it? cranks == turns over

 

it cranks. my bad. i meant it doesnt start. did some research of my own, and with the consistant freezing weather here in illinois, i would actually agree with the main switch relay possibility...

 

I think the relay is cheap, easy to replace and is KNOWN problem with Honda. I would just go and replace it. If yours is not bad it will go bad


From my understanding ( I am not a honda expert, I just bought a EG a month ago myself ) the fuel pump will not turn on unless the main relay turns on. You said you heard the fuel pump prime the car.

Next time you try and start your car hookup a multimeter to your battery. While your cranking see how low voltage drops. Your battery might just be weak in the cold, turning over the engine too slow for it start up fast light it use. Need fuel,spark and compression to run/start.

Since you have a OBDII car hookup a scanner and check the coolant temp and IAT. Your ECU will give your car more gas when it is cold out like it is where you live. Maybe your sensors are off and not priming your car.

p.s. Sunny and 64f here tomorrow.

 

I disagree about buying a relay. Throwing parts is the wrong approach.

I agree about everything else though. You need to get a multimeter and a Helms manual and do some proper troubleshooting.

 

Installing a KNOWN good part sometimes is trouble shooting. A lot of times it is faster and more economical. At some point your time has to be worth something.

If it was a $500 part or it takes four plus hours to replace I would agree with to. I am a mechanic with a four channel scope and a five gas analyzer. How many mechanics or shops can say that? I had worked in the computer field for 15+ years. So, yes I agree with diagnose 1st but it does not make much economic sense for $50 part that takes 10 minutes to replace that is a KNOWN problem that can leave you stranded.

When your living room goes dark what do you do? Please don't tell me you just throw a part at it. I mean a light bulb hahaha

 

I'm sure you're very good at what you do, but whether you have four channel scopes and five gas analyzers has no bearing on my agreement with your advice. There are multiple possible causes of the OPs problem. I believe that replacing parts in random order is just not a good way to go about solving these problems. For one it's a gamble that may not pay off. Also at $50 a relay is hardly cheap, at least to some people. Second it doesn't provide much information. If the part doesn't help, you've wasted some combination of time, effort, and money, and gotten only a small amount closer to finding the problem. Troubleshooting correctly is the most efficient use of time AND money. It usually takes the same or lesser amount of time to replacing a part and it's free to boot.

OP has some slightly differing opinions at least to think about.

 

I think we just have different threshold for parts cost/what our time is worth. Unless you really trouble shoot your living room first before just replacing the light bulb.

In this exact case we are talking about $50 and ten minutes for a KNOWN part that fails all the time and can leave you stranded on a 12 year old car. If he replaces the main relay you can rule that out and not have to worry about when you do the rest of your tests.

For my own time/money I would not replace fuel pump or ecu without a LOT of test first.

 

Post up your link. I could use some parts for EG.

 

i just change the lightbulb lol
start with basic trouble shooting though check fuel spark air def check for codes too sorry couldnt be of more help

 

Testing the main relay takes all of two minutes, and is completely free. Replacing it on a whim is not smart, especially when other symptoms indicate it may be functioning correctly. Besides that it's not a wear item and is very unlikely to leave the OP stranded on any given day. There are a number of parts that could suddenly go bad but there's no reason to go replacing all of them if they are functioning correctly.

And enough with your insulting lightbulb analogy. Anybody can tell when a light bulb has gone bad. Cars are more complicated, as you are well aware. You want to tell the OP to start throwing parts at a problem that he can easily troubleshoot? Unless OP already has parts on hand, it's BAD ADVICE.

 

I agree with Gagnar. Just visual inspections like a timing belt chek and anything free before you start buying parts is the best way. Throwniog money at it will only make you hate the car much more.
Multimeter and a helms like Gagnar stated. Cheap, useful and extremely a great approach. Pin point your problem. Don't waste money.

 

I agree with both of you dntnedvtec GagnarTheUnruly on diagnosing 1st. In CA it is illegal do smog repair without a Smog lic, scope & gas analyzer. All of which I have. But every tom dick and harry shop just slaps in cat when it fails smog. Of course the reason the cat failed is still there and it cause the new cat to fail.

I only said to replace a $50 part that takes 10 minutes that is known to fail on 12 year old.

You can not test an intermittent relay. There is no way you can replicate heat, vibration for 24/7 for months on end. A lot of the main relays go bad over a period of several months. Look at how many posts my car worked great for four weeks but last night it just died, then restarted and worked for another week, etc...

A bad relay is easy test. Agreed. Relays go bad. It is wear item. It has moving parts. Vibration/heat get to them,etc...


So go ahead pull you Helms manual and test that relay that is good right now and wonder why you are stranded on the three to six months down the road.

on this board or google type in "honda main relay problem" see how many times the work random comes up. car worked fine and then it just died.


I don't think $50/10 minutes is that much to spend on a 12 year old car to give me piece of mind. Now the fuel pump on the other hand is PITA.

 

Hey, update on the teg. Spent all of yesterday with my multimeter, checking all the different distributor points. It was getting fuel, but no spark. Tore down the distributer and did a test for the coil. That was bad, replaced it and started right up. Now the problem is major misfiring. I marked the distributor with a sharpie to know my stock timing, and i got pretty close to it. This car gets me more and more confused...and yes, i just ordered a Haynes manual for this car, will come in handy later...

 

Check for spark again. Which plugs are misfiring?

 

Hey, another bump on the teg. rechecked all my plugs on the distributor, and it looked like the plug for cylinder #1 looked a little loose, so i hooked it up and it seemed to fix the miss. I even had enough time to red light race a wrx:D then the miss came back after the WOT scenario...i started limping the car home with the miss, and after a few minutes of calm driving the miss went away...again,,,

 

mine was doing this a few months ago, rebuilt the distributor which took care of the problem. runs really strong.

http://www.acuraoemparts.com/delray/...All&vinsrch=no

Check this link out ^^^

I think it was mainly

011 30510-PT2-006 COIL ASSY., IGNITION
and
007 30120-PT3-003 IGNITER UNIT (OKI)

might as well do the cap and rotor while your in there. not to sure how your plug wires look but that could be a culprit as well (more unlikely)

theory behind mine was, it ran great till it got hot enough. one proper running temp was reached it would stress the igniter unit/coil assembly and cause failure till it cools down and then it will start again. OR like stated above the main relay is heating up and failing. iv had a MAJOR clogged cat on my integra before, it did not cause it die, just ran like **** when trying to give it gas.

i went to napa and got all the part for the rebuild for i think 160ish.

as for the misfire, you got all your wires in the proper place on the distributor?
doesnt sound like the rotor is making clean contact with the cap, or the igniter unit is failing.

 

Ditto the above^^^ if the coil was bad, i would definatly check the ICM, [igniter].

I am also no fan of tossing parts at a car as a form of troubleshooting, however swapping out a known working part to troubleshoot is definatly the fastest/easiest way to confirm or elliminate a component as the problem or not.

With that said, yes I would swap out a PGM-FI Main Relay with a known working one, no I would not swap out an Alt. with a known working one, although I have both, along with a number of other "parts" for my 94 LS that I have picked up at PicnnPull over the years, and tested to make sure they are working.

I would never go and buy a part untill I had tested it and confirmed it was bad.

The PGM-FI Main Relay is a common problem especially on older Honda/Acura, but hardly ever have to be replaced, the repair is so easy... http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/mainrelay.html
http://techauto.tripod.com/mainrelay.htm

There is no way I would spend $50, or anyting, on someting so easy to fix, 99.99% of the time. 94

 

buy a new part == swapping out for known good part

I am sure if the person had the same exact part in his garage and knew that it worked he would use that on and not go out and buy a new one.


In the future on honda-tech to CYMA I will say "swap for known good part".

 

Lol, well, since im still in high school, my auto teacher just orderes all the parts for shop through CarQuest, I managed to get the ICM, a coil, all 4 wires and plugs, all for around the same price...

Figured since I already replaced the coil and checked the relay, id check the ICM. When i took the distributor apart to do the multimeter BLK/YLW wire test, i failed to notice that one of the joints on the module looked corroded and gross. Changed that, replaced the plugs and wires just for peace of mind, and it runs fine now.

Although.............something just doesnt feel right,.....i mean not in a bad way, the engine just feels a bit empty...i dont want to be all overreacting or what not, but whenever you take it into high revs, it just doesnt feel like its using its power the way it did before the whole dilemma....is that theoretically possible? Maybe my timings off a tad bit? (I shot it with the timing gun, it looked like it should with the red mark on the crankshaft pulley)...

 

Did you jump the service connector when you checked the timing?94

 

Fcm what does jumping the service connector do exactly? I just adjusted mine and didn't take that step. Sorry to divert from your topic sonic.

Sonic
Check your plugs out? Perhaps you should take Fcms advice and check ignition timing with connector jumped.

 

Nope, didnt jump it... Why? Was it important?