Headed In the Right Direction? 99 EM1 SI
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Headed In the Right Direction? 99 EM1 SI
Guess it begins, Went against everything I thought I was going to do when buddy gave me his computer to price out everything I wanted @ his cost. What do you think?
(Want to make sure I am doing this right)
Intake - AEM V2 Intake
Headers - Skunk2 Alpha Series Header 2.5" Collector
Test Pipe - Blox 2.5"
Cat Back - Greddy Evo2 (I believe the Catback is 70MM) *already own*
Throttle Body - Skunk2 Pro-Series 70mm
Intake Manifold - Skunk2 Pro-Series
Cams - Skunk2 Tuner-Series Camshafts
AEM High Volume Fuel Rail
DeatschWerks Injectors 550cc
Carbonetic LSD
(Total cost 2,600.98 after tax)
The reason the parts are so specific is because those are what I can get through my friend @ his cost, He only carrys so much through the distributor. Here are some of my questions (Before it is pointed out because I am sure I have something not needed or I am doing something wrong or I will ask a dumb question)
Yes I am a 110% noooby, I have been reading as much as I can through other peoples builds and threads but I find myself Lost in some of the translation because alot of the build threads everyone knows what they are talking about. AKA what would work better, Whats needed what isn't needed etc...
I do NOT want to Swap the motor or boost it just yet, I want to have fun with it NA for awhile and that might just be enough to make the car a blast to drive after my suspension is finished. Anyway onto the questions..
1) Do I need a stand alone EMS? How should I go about tunning after everything is installed?
2) are 550cc Injectors to big for more or less just a bolt on build? Should I step it down a bit?
3) What kind of WTQ / WHP do you think I can expect (after a good tune)?
Thank you much ahead of time! Remember I am still learning! lol =(
(Want to make sure I am doing this right)
Intake - AEM V2 Intake
Headers - Skunk2 Alpha Series Header 2.5" Collector
Test Pipe - Blox 2.5"
Cat Back - Greddy Evo2 (I believe the Catback is 70MM) *already own*
Throttle Body - Skunk2 Pro-Series 70mm
Intake Manifold - Skunk2 Pro-Series
Cams - Skunk2 Tuner-Series Camshafts
AEM High Volume Fuel Rail
DeatschWerks Injectors 550cc
Carbonetic LSD
(Total cost 2,600.98 after tax)
The reason the parts are so specific is because those are what I can get through my friend @ his cost, He only carrys so much through the distributor. Here are some of my questions (Before it is pointed out because I am sure I have something not needed or I am doing something wrong or I will ask a dumb question)
Yes I am a 110% noooby, I have been reading as much as I can through other peoples builds and threads but I find myself Lost in some of the translation because alot of the build threads everyone knows what they are talking about. AKA what would work better, Whats needed what isn't needed etc...
I do NOT want to Swap the motor or boost it just yet, I want to have fun with it NA for awhile and that might just be enough to make the car a blast to drive after my suspension is finished. Anyway onto the questions..
1) Do I need a stand alone EMS? How should I go about tunning after everything is installed?
2) are 550cc Injectors to big for more or less just a bolt on build? Should I step it down a bit?
3) What kind of WTQ / WHP do you think I can expect (after a good tune)?
Thank you much ahead of time! Remember I am still learning! lol =(
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From: Little Rock, AR
Re: Headed In the Right Direction? 99 EM1 SI
you will need cam gears to dial in the cams correctly. 550 is a good size injector. especially if u want to go e85 later. should be perfect for your setup. valvetrain recommended depending on what tuner cam you run. never saw much reason to run the aem fuel rail. the stock rail will flow more than enough for your power levels.
b16 with those bolt ons. 160-180whp range i would assume. with a good tune. neptune or s300 for the tuning. unless your on a budget then a chipped ecu with a tune on crome will suffice.
b16 with those bolt ons. 160-180whp range i would assume. with a good tune. neptune or s300 for the tuning. unless your on a budget then a chipped ecu with a tune on crome will suffice.
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Re: Headed In the Right Direction? 99 EM1 SI
you will need cam gears to dial in the cams correctly. 550 is a good size injector. especially if u want to go e85 later. should be perfect for your setup. valvetrain recommended depending on what tuner cam you run. never saw much reason to run the aem fuel rail. the stock rail will flow more than enough for your power levels.
b16 with those bolt ons. 160-180whp range i would assume. with a good tune. neptune or s300 for the tuning. unless your on a budget then a chipped ecu with a tune on crome will suffice.
b16 with those bolt ons. 160-180whp range i would assume. with a good tune. neptune or s300 for the tuning. unless your on a budget then a chipped ecu with a tune on crome will suffice.
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Re: Headed In the Right Direction? 99 EM1 SI
Ok so ditched the rail and the cost of valves springs retainers ( I think its the whole kit ) Plus pistons really isn't that bad. So @ this point I would send out for some P&P work and probably look into a new head gasket to raise compression, suggestions? It is my daily driver so I need whatever mods I do to remain safe. Here is the specs
AEM Tru-Time Adjustable Cam Gears - 79.72$
CP Pistons - Sport Compact Pistons - 124.27$ Each
specs -
Comp Ratio: 12.5:1
Bore: 3.307(84.0mm)
Comp Height: 1.181
Comp Ratio: 12.5:1
Size: STD
Bore: 3.307(84.0mm)
Comp Height: 1.181
Size: STD
Skunk2 Alpha Series Valve Spring & Ti Retainer Kit - 270.59$
Coil Bind: 0.800”
Open Pressure: 210 lbs at 0.820”
Seat Pressure: 50 lbs at 1.320”
Cams specs -
Exhaust Duration/Lift: 270* / 11.9
Intake Duration/Lift: 275* / 12.4
What Head Gasket would you go with? How high would you raise your compression? Would this setup match right or should I get a more agressive cam if I am doing pistons Valves retainers?
AEM Tru-Time Adjustable Cam Gears - 79.72$
CP Pistons - Sport Compact Pistons - 124.27$ Each
specs -
Comp Ratio: 12.5:1
Bore: 3.307(84.0mm)
Comp Height: 1.181
Comp Ratio: 12.5:1
Size: STD
Bore: 3.307(84.0mm)
Comp Height: 1.181
Size: STD
Skunk2 Alpha Series Valve Spring & Ti Retainer Kit - 270.59$
Coil Bind: 0.800”
Open Pressure: 210 lbs at 0.820”
Seat Pressure: 50 lbs at 1.320”
Cams specs -
Exhaust Duration/Lift: 270* / 11.9
Intake Duration/Lift: 275* / 12.4
What Head Gasket would you go with? How high would you raise your compression? Would this setup match right or should I get a more agressive cam if I am doing pistons Valves retainers?
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From: SGV
Re: Headed In the Right Direction? 99 EM1 SI
Did you know that the pistons you have listed are all 84mm?
Assuming you have 2-3k to spend and don't want to swap out the block, leave it alone as it is not worth building.
Spend the 2-3k on your head, cams, some basic bolt on parts that can be reused and pick up an S300/Neptune/Chrome to tune it. With some luck you should be able to get into the 170-180 WHP
Assuming you have 2-3k to spend and don't want to swap out the block, leave it alone as it is not worth building.
Spend the 2-3k on your head, cams, some basic bolt on parts that can be reused and pick up an S300/Neptune/Chrome to tune it. With some luck you should be able to get into the 170-180 WHP
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Re: Headed In the Right Direction? 99 EM1 SI
Like mentioned before I really need to sit down and talk to a mechanic about these motors. It's so beyond foreign to me how everything is like legos. this B series goes with that B series goes with that etc... This bottom end is much stronger, These heads are better. Lol its confusing, when you are used to dealing with 1 motor and you get what you get. But I think that you are right otherwise, Someone had mentioned getting a B18 bottom block and keeping my head. Sorry again for being retarded. I know it has to be frustrating because its like what the **** is this kid thinking lol.... I do thank you all for the input though greatly appreciated.
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Re: Headed In the Right Direction? 99 EM1 SI
Welcome ... My comments are in bold for clarity
Guess it begins, Went against everything I thought I was going to do when buddy gave me his computer to price out everything I wanted @ his cost. What do you think?
(Want to make sure I am doing this right)
Intake - AEM V2 Intake - Not bad for cold air, though throttle response will suffer slightly
Headers - Skunk2 Alpha Series Header 2.5" Collector Nice choice
Test Pipe - Blox 2.5" There's no need for this. Even with the nice GReddy exhaust you have, it wll sound like garbage. Use a nice highflow Catalytic converter with a 2.5" donut for it..
Cat Back - Greddy Evo2 (I believe the Catback is 70MM) *already own* I have one of these on my EM1 as well. its about 60mm not 70mm, but it does the job just fine.
Throttle Body - Skunk2 Pro-Series 70mm - Good choice
Intake Manifold - Skunk2 Pro-Series - Again, nice choice
Cams - Skunk2 Tuner-Series Camshafts I'd go with the Pro1 before the Tuner 2 series camshafts. They are the same price, but the profile is a bit smoother than the Tuner series. Make sure you get the matching valvetrain to work with them.
AEM High Volume Fuel Rail -Not necessary. Save your money for better catalytic converter
DeatschWerks Injectors 550cc Very nice.
Carbonetic LSD Nice and professional. you'll never regret THIS purchase
(Total cost 2,600.98 after tax)
The reason the parts are so specific is because those are what I can get through my friend @ his cost, He only carrys so much through the distributor. Here are some of my questions (Before it is pointed out because I am sure I have something not needed or I am doing something wrong or I will ask a dumb question)
No, you're not doing anything wrong, you're going 90% on most items, then change the last 10% for no rhyme or reason. Stick the plan, you're doing fine.
Yes I am a 110% noooby, I have been reading as much as I can through other peoples builds and threads but I find myself Lost in some of the translation because alot of the build threads everyone knows what they are talking about. AKA what would work better, Whats needed what isn't needed etc...
I do NOT want to Swap the motor or boost it just yet, I want to have fun with it NA for awhile and that might just be enough to make the car a blast to drive after my suspension is finished. Anyway onto the questions..
1) Do I need a stand alone EMS? How should I go about tunning after everything is installed?
If the block itself hasn't been touched, you can simply use a small basemap from an OBD1 ECU (with conversion harness), and get to the tuner that way. BUT YOU NEED TO HAVE IT TUNED FOR THESE PARTS TO WORK TOGETHER PROPERLY. A standalone is not necessary, but if you can beat the Hondata or Neptune prices through your connections, I don't see why not.
2) are 550cc Injectors to big for more or less just a bolt on build? Should I step it down a bit?
Perfect. No need to change anything in that regard. the Deutchwerks will be easier to tune millisecond time delays for your tuner.
3) What kind of WTQ / WHP do you think I can expect (after a good tune)?
Go to the tuner and find out. Honestly that's the best way to do it.
Thank you much ahead of time! Remember I am still learning! lol =(
(Want to make sure I am doing this right)
Intake - AEM V2 Intake - Not bad for cold air, though throttle response will suffer slightly
Headers - Skunk2 Alpha Series Header 2.5" Collector Nice choice
Test Pipe - Blox 2.5" There's no need for this. Even with the nice GReddy exhaust you have, it wll sound like garbage. Use a nice highflow Catalytic converter with a 2.5" donut for it..
Cat Back - Greddy Evo2 (I believe the Catback is 70MM) *already own* I have one of these on my EM1 as well. its about 60mm not 70mm, but it does the job just fine.
Throttle Body - Skunk2 Pro-Series 70mm - Good choice
Intake Manifold - Skunk2 Pro-Series - Again, nice choice
Cams - Skunk2 Tuner-Series Camshafts I'd go with the Pro1 before the Tuner 2 series camshafts. They are the same price, but the profile is a bit smoother than the Tuner series. Make sure you get the matching valvetrain to work with them.
AEM High Volume Fuel Rail -Not necessary. Save your money for better catalytic converter
DeatschWerks Injectors 550cc Very nice.
Carbonetic LSD Nice and professional. you'll never regret THIS purchase
(Total cost 2,600.98 after tax)
The reason the parts are so specific is because those are what I can get through my friend @ his cost, He only carrys so much through the distributor. Here are some of my questions (Before it is pointed out because I am sure I have something not needed or I am doing something wrong or I will ask a dumb question)
No, you're not doing anything wrong, you're going 90% on most items, then change the last 10% for no rhyme or reason. Stick the plan, you're doing fine.
Yes I am a 110% noooby, I have been reading as much as I can through other peoples builds and threads but I find myself Lost in some of the translation because alot of the build threads everyone knows what they are talking about. AKA what would work better, Whats needed what isn't needed etc...
I do NOT want to Swap the motor or boost it just yet, I want to have fun with it NA for awhile and that might just be enough to make the car a blast to drive after my suspension is finished. Anyway onto the questions..
1) Do I need a stand alone EMS? How should I go about tunning after everything is installed?
If the block itself hasn't been touched, you can simply use a small basemap from an OBD1 ECU (with conversion harness), and get to the tuner that way. BUT YOU NEED TO HAVE IT TUNED FOR THESE PARTS TO WORK TOGETHER PROPERLY. A standalone is not necessary, but if you can beat the Hondata or Neptune prices through your connections, I don't see why not.
2) are 550cc Injectors to big for more or less just a bolt on build? Should I step it down a bit?
Perfect. No need to change anything in that regard. the Deutchwerks will be easier to tune millisecond time delays for your tuner.
3) What kind of WTQ / WHP do you think I can expect (after a good tune)?
Go to the tuner and find out. Honestly that's the best way to do it.
Thank you much ahead of time! Remember I am still learning! lol =(
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Posts: 9,854
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From: Southern California, U.S.A.
Re: Headed In the Right Direction? 99 EM1 SI
For $2,600 you will still have a slow a$$ no torque B16.
Drop a used GSR longblock with a decent header,exhaust, and tuning and the car will be much faster. For tuning you will need an OBD2-OBD1 conversion harness and a chipped OBD1 ECU. Crome, Neptune, Hondata S100. Go.
Or a B20VTEC. B20 longblocks are available for $500 or so. You can use your B16 head with an LSVTEC conversion kit.
If you are dead set on not doing a swap: I/H/E tuning on the B16. No fuel rail. Stock injectors.Stock IM. Drive the car and see how you like it.
Research what the benefit of a specific part is before you spend your $$. Decide what your torque/power goals are-then go with the appropriate motor and bolt on combination.
Personally, I would not do a B16 unless I just wanted to see how much power I could squeeze out of it. Then I would go rods, 11:1 pistons, ported head, Skunk2 Pro3 cams, top end header (Hytech, SMSP, etc.), Performer X IM, CAI, 440cc injectors, and rev the engine to 9,000 + RPM. Just to see what was possible.
Drop a used GSR longblock with a decent header,exhaust, and tuning and the car will be much faster. For tuning you will need an OBD2-OBD1 conversion harness and a chipped OBD1 ECU. Crome, Neptune, Hondata S100. Go.
Or a B20VTEC. B20 longblocks are available for $500 or so. You can use your B16 head with an LSVTEC conversion kit.
If you are dead set on not doing a swap: I/H/E tuning on the B16. No fuel rail. Stock injectors.Stock IM. Drive the car and see how you like it.
Research what the benefit of a specific part is before you spend your $$. Decide what your torque/power goals are-then go with the appropriate motor and bolt on combination.
Personally, I would not do a B16 unless I just wanted to see how much power I could squeeze out of it. Then I would go rods, 11:1 pistons, ported head, Skunk2 Pro3 cams, top end header (Hytech, SMSP, etc.), Performer X IM, CAI, 440cc injectors, and rev the engine to 9,000 + RPM. Just to see what was possible.
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Re: Headed In the Right Direction? 99 EM1 SI
Ya I just posted a few WTB threads and I am going to see what happens given some of the advice you all have passed toward me. Not 1 2 or 3.. more like 8-9-10 people told me to ditch the B16 Block and keep the heads.
Last edited by jamesschmidt82; Jan 16, 2013 at 04:01 PM. Reason: Cleaned up post upon request.
Re: Headed In the Right Direction? 99 EM1 SI
Take THAT portion of your thread and place an ad in the Marketplace. That's the best place it should be as well as your contact information.. Keep your build thread just that.. for the build. Keep your for-sale stuff on the other forum.. please separate.
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Re: Headed In the Right Direction? 99 EM1 SI
OK So Here is where I am now, I found a Clean GSR Block and Type R cams, I plan to have the car sit for awhile and have everything P&P and cleaned up real nice. I would like to raise my compression as much as possible while retaining (decent) gas mileage and GREAT reliability. All the prices other than the Block & the Cams are for new.
Are the Valves retainers pistons needed? Or can I just P&P bolt everything up together get hondata and a good tune on it and be roughly around the same HP? What should I add or remove or change?
Going to use my B16 head
Clean GSR Block - ($600.00)
Intake - AEM V2 Intake ($253.79)
Headers - Skunk2 Alpha Series Header 2.5" Collector ($340.00)
Test Pipe - Invidia 60mm ($60.00)
Cat Back - Greddy Evo2 60mm (own)
Throttle Body - Skunk2 Pro-Series 70mm ($183.26)
Intake Manifold - Skunk2 Pro-Series for GSR ($246.00)
Cams - ITR cams - ($200.00)
DeatschWerks Injectors 550cc - ($255.20)
Carbonetic LSD ($759.20)
Skunk2 Pro-Series Adjustable Cam Gears - ($200.89)
Skunk2 One-Piece Forged Valves High Compression ($14.96 each)
Supertech Pistons B18c1 - ($71.87) (not sure if that is each or for the set, They show the set but I am guessing that price is each.
Specs -
Head CCs: 41.5
Pin Dia: 21mm (.827")
Skirt: Slipper
Dome/Dish Vol: 7.5cc
Bore: 82.00mm
Comp Ratio: 12.2:1
Comp Ratio: 12.5:1
Gram Weight: 257g
Comp Ratio: 11.1:1
Head CCs: 42.7
Comp Height: 1.181" (30mm)
Comp Height: 1.181"(30mm)
Head CCs: 45
Comp Ratio: 12.4:1
Oversized: 1mm+
Are the Valves retainers pistons needed? Or can I just P&P bolt everything up together get hondata and a good tune on it and be roughly around the same HP? What should I add or remove or change?
Going to use my B16 head
Clean GSR Block - ($600.00)
Intake - AEM V2 Intake ($253.79)
Headers - Skunk2 Alpha Series Header 2.5" Collector ($340.00)
Test Pipe - Invidia 60mm ($60.00)
Cat Back - Greddy Evo2 60mm (own)
Throttle Body - Skunk2 Pro-Series 70mm ($183.26)
Intake Manifold - Skunk2 Pro-Series for GSR ($246.00)
Cams - ITR cams - ($200.00)
DeatschWerks Injectors 550cc - ($255.20)
Carbonetic LSD ($759.20)
Skunk2 Pro-Series Adjustable Cam Gears - ($200.89)
Skunk2 One-Piece Forged Valves High Compression ($14.96 each)
Supertech Pistons B18c1 - ($71.87) (not sure if that is each or for the set, They show the set but I am guessing that price is each.
Specs -
Head CCs: 41.5
Pin Dia: 21mm (.827")
Skirt: Slipper
Dome/Dish Vol: 7.5cc
Bore: 82.00mm
Comp Ratio: 12.2:1
Comp Ratio: 12.5:1
Gram Weight: 257g
Comp Ratio: 11.1:1
Head CCs: 42.7
Comp Height: 1.181" (30mm)
Comp Height: 1.181"(30mm)
Head CCs: 45
Comp Ratio: 12.4:1
Oversized: 1mm+
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Re: Headed In the Right Direction? 99 EM1 SI
Yea I guess my BIGGEST question is after I P&P do I NEED pistons / Valves / retainers? To be able to run a higher safe compression I would really like to hit 200+WHP NA. Or will getting everything else be just fine with a good tune on Hondata?
Last edited by jamesschmidt82; Jan 17, 2013 at 04:14 AM.
Re: Headed In the Right Direction? 99 EM1 SI
You won't really reach the true 200whp with the stock Type R block. ( you don't need P&P to do that) but 11.5:1 or slightly higher in order to get to that level . If you are using an aftermarket camshaft, then you want the right spring/retainer to work with it.
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From: CT
Re: Headed In the Right Direction? 99 EM1 SI
i would skip the valves, i haven't seen many oem ones that weren't reusable.
do you really want/need forged pistons? there are plenty of oem ones that can get you into the compression ratio you want.
p&p? on the fence. to make best use of such headwork would require more aggressive cams. and at that point you're dishing out quite some cash for a reputable machine shop that actually won't make it flow worse than when they began.
do you really want/need forged pistons? there are plenty of oem ones that can get you into the compression ratio you want.
p&p? on the fence. to make best use of such headwork would require more aggressive cams. and at that point you're dishing out quite some cash for a reputable machine shop that actually won't make it flow worse than when they began.
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Re: Headed In the Right Direction? 99 EM1 SI
Ya I found a thread of NA builds after hours of searching, It seems the one thing people skip is the valves but they do go in on springs / retainers / pistons. P&P on a B16 head seems be under efficient and alot of people are claiming the HP results for the cost is pretty much pointless. I should just spend 3 grand slap a turbo on the damn thing but I am drawn to NA for some odd reason.
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Re: Headed In the Right Direction? 99 EM1 SI
I am going to look into the site I get parts from again and see what the cheapest piston for the ratio is, I was also thinking of ditching the Type R cam after reading alot of the NA builds and going with a skunk tuner series, something less mild.
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Re: Headed In the Right Direction? 99 EM1 SI
I was shooting for 12:1 but I don't know where reliability stands @ that point and how possible it is. So 11:1 seems to be the area I want to stick around to get roughly 200 WHP out of it? Also to cut some corners I think I am going to skip Hondata and run a chipped P28 & Chrome.
Re: Headed In the Right Direction? 99 EM1 SI
As an owner of a GSR Block with ITR pistons in it and a PnP’d GSR head with ITR cams and ITR valve train I can tell you that 200whp will not be possible. More money and higher end parts will be needed.
To your reliability question. Depends on the tune really and how well everything is maintained.
If I had to do things over again I would target 12:1~12.5:1 compression. Currently running 11.5:1.
To your reliability question. Depends on the tune really and how well everything is maintained.
If I had to do things over again I would target 12:1~12.5:1 compression. Currently running 11.5:1.
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Re: Headed In the Right Direction? 99 EM1 SI
As an owner of a GSR Block with ITR pistons in it and a PnP’d GSR head with ITR cams and ITR valve train I can tell you that 200whp will not be possible. More money and higher end parts will be needed.
To your reliability question. Depends on the tune really and how well everything is maintained.
If I had to do things over again I would target 12:1~12.5:1 compression. Currently running 11.5:1.
To your reliability question. Depends on the tune really and how well everything is maintained.
If I had to do things over again I would target 12:1~12.5:1 compression. Currently running 11.5:1.
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From: Cbus, OH, U.S.A.
Re: Headed In the Right Direction? 99 EM1 SI
It took me a little longer than a year of reading and researching to decide what I wanted to do with my ls vtec… then it still took me 2 years to decide what parts I wanted because there was so much reading to do along the way. There's a lot to know, but it will be rewarding to understand why you are installing the parts you choose or why you should use this block with that head, these pistons with that block, etc.
Good rule of thumb: It's 2 of 3 things… cheap, reliable, fast. Never all 3.
Good rule of thumb: It's 2 of 3 things… cheap, reliable, fast. Never all 3.
Re: Headed In the Right Direction? 99 EM1 SI
Id leave the car as close to stock as possible.
If its in decent condition, it will probably become a collectors item in the future as these are becoming rare as noobs molest them and think they have a racecar. It might be worth some cash in the future. For 2800 bucks you can build a different honda and throw a cover on this one.
If its in decent condition, it will probably become a collectors item in the future as these are becoming rare as noobs molest them and think they have a racecar. It might be worth some cash in the future. For 2800 bucks you can build a different honda and throw a cover on this one.
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From: schooling kids in ny, usa
Re: Headed In the Right Direction? 99 EM1 SI
Id leave the car as close to stock as possible.
If its in decent condition, it will probably become a collectors item in the future as these are becoming rare as noobs molest them and think they have a racecar. It might be worth some cash in the future. For 2800 bucks you can build a different honda and throw a cover on this one.
If its in decent condition, it will probably become a collectors item in the future as these are becoming rare as noobs molest them and think they have a racecar. It might be worth some cash in the future. For 2800 bucks you can build a different honda and throw a cover on this one.
since it seems you are going with that gsr block and itr cams, id use itr pistons. i think it should be right about 11.5:1. might not make the most power it could make close to 140wtq and have a great powerband. i wouldnt go much above 11.5 compression without cams with more overlap.
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From: Cbus, OH, U.S.A.
Re: Headed In the Right Direction? 99 EM1 SI
I actually never thought of this. I was gonna sell mine after the swap for the extra cash but... might just hang on to it for a little bit.
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