So I have been working on this B20 swapped Integra for a few weeks. I am pretty much restoring it. Pulled the old harness out and swapped in a new one, replace all suspension pieces and much more. Car was originally AT, but converted to MT. I just replaced the brake switch, and removed the AT harness for a cleaned up MT harness.

Finally got a new battery and tray set-up (old battery was huge and literally thrown in the trunk) and started her up. Took about 15 seconds of "chugging" before it actually started. When it started, the car shut off almost instantly. I turned the key again and it started up just fine.

Took her around the block and pulled back into the driveway and shut her off as I noticed a small coolant leak. Tried to start her again and nothing happened. No clicks, no chugging, etc.

Everything electrically works fine and the lights in the dash come on when the key is turned to [II] (oil psi light/battery light etc). The headunit and other lights dim a little when I try to start it. Almost like the power is going somewhere, but nothing is happening.

Starter, clutch switch, or ignition switch is what I am getting from all of the forums. Can anyone help me out on where to start checking? I would prefer not to just start throwing parts at this car as I have spent about $1.5k on it after buying it and I haven't even been about to drive it yet

 

Start here...
https://honda-tech.com/forums/showth...CM+bypass+jump 94

 

^thanks fcm. I did see that thread and I was going to try that unless someone had a similar experience. Looks like I need to go and buy myself some electrical "testing" tools like the 12v test light. I will try using a jumper wire when I get home tonight and see if that does anything.

Just by the scenario, I would imagine it is not the ignition switch because everything works as I turn the key from [I] to [II] and everything dims as I try to "crank" it. I wasn't sure if anyone else could rule other things out or bring something else to my attention by reading the description of the problem.

I do not have a fuse box cover for the interior and it looks like a lot of random fuses were thrown in there (not OEM Honda). Does anyone know of a specific fuse I need to check out by chance? I doubt that's the problem, but I might as well look into it.

 

Although there is a "starter" fuse, [hot only when cranking to start] there is no fuse for "crank" the starter fuse is for signal to the ECU/ECM and PGM-FI Main Relay during cranking.

The no crank problem you are having my well be the ign. switch, even if everything else works.

The steps in the link I posted will pinpoint the problem.

A 12V test light will set you back $2.95, $ 10 will get you the Binford 5000 12V test light, and you want the ordinary bulb type, not the LED type. 94

 

fcm, Thanks for the link and the confirmation. Jumped the starter lead and the car started up right away. I guess the problem isn't with the starter after all. I will pull the ign stuff and clean the leads etc. looks like I will just start testing everything haha

 

Next step would be to bypass the CIS, [Clutch Interlock Switch] unplug the CIS, [mounted high up on the clutch] use a paper clip to jump the tow leads in the plug, if engine cranks, replace the CIS.

If still no crank, test for power, [when cranking] on the black/white lead at the ign. switch harness, if no power, the problem is the ign. switch, if there is power on the black/white, the problem is either the starter relay or a wiring/connection problem. 94

 

I found the CIS and all that, but found no plugs. The car was AT and converted to MT if that matters.

I replaced the AT harness with a MT harness, and the car started once, then never again after taking a ride around the block.

Does the CIS have anything to do with it still, or not since my car was converted?

 

If there is no CIS, the starter relay was getting it's ground from someplace else or it would never have started.

It may be a problem with that ground, you did say "no clicks", if you are not hearing a click from under the dash when you turn the ign. key to start it means the starter relay is not turning on.

If you swapped out the auto dash harness with one from a standard there would have been a starter relay, or at least the plug to jump, if the relay was plugged in then either the CIS would have to be plugged in or that plug would have to have been jumped.

Your going to have to find the 2pin CIS plug and either plug it into the CIS if it was jumped, that it still is. 94

 

FCM, the dash harness is AT from my understanding. The engine harness was AT, too. I swapped that personally. From working on the car for the past month, the bare minimum was done for the AT-MT swap. I had to swap the brake pedal myself, too.

Just wondering, do you need to press on the brake pedal to start an AT Integra? Might be a retarded question, but maybe the brake pedal swap could have done something. There was a spring on the AT pedal that I couldn't get back on the MT pedal, too. Just a random thought. never owned an AT, so I wouldn't know.

Yes, there is a click that I hear under the dash. I was under there today while playing with the key.

Where is the starter relay? Is the ground I could possibly find without too much trouble?

I also pulled apart the ignition switch and cleaned all the leads today, too.

 

If the dash harness is A/T there should be no starter relay, the A/T Integra did not use a starter relay it used the A/T Gear Position Switch that has a "neutral safety switch" built into it.

When an auto to manual swap is done using the auto dash harness, the "easy fix" is to install a jumper in the A/TGPS plug to connect the starter lead input and output, that jumper may be loose or not installed properly.

The correct "fix" would have been to install a relay to jump the A/TGPS and trigger the relay using the CIS so it would work the same way as if you had the M/T dash harness.

Question, the click you hear under the dash, is that when you turn the ign, switch on to run or only when you turn it to start?

If it is when you turn the ign. to run, the click will be the PGM-FI Main Relay, it will click two times, [very close together, may sound like one click] it is the injector relay and fuel pump relays turning on, [at the same time the fuel pump will start priming] than after no more then a few sec. it will click again, [fuel pump relay turning off, along with the fuel pump].

On a G2 the PGM-FI Main Relay is just to the left of the steering column...


On a G3 it is just above the hood release...


Make sure the "click" you hear is not coming from the PGM-FI Main Relay. 94

 

The click I was hearing must have come from the main relay then since it was literally right above the hood latch. I hear two clicks as I moved the key to [II]. One for the pump turning on, then another for it turning off. Zero clicks when I try to start it however. We can rule the main relay out?

So I still need to locate the starter relay?

I pulled the center console out to look everything over and found the gear shift selection thingy. Didn't look to closely at it though. I am sure it is "half assed" like you mentioned seeing as there is no CIS.

Just as an FYI, the car started with zero problems for the past month or so. I even drove it from Central Maryland all the way up to Philly area where I live. Car started once with the new battery and harness, then never again.

Thanks so much for the help btw. I am so frustrated with it, I am about to just throw in a push button start set-up in it lol. FCM, you are the only reason why I am not doing that yet. I am terrible with electricity if you haven't noticed

 

Yes, either the starter relay or at least the plug for it, should be on the right side of heater unit.

However, you said the dash harness is A/T so there will be no starter relay, just the jumped A/T Gear Position Switch plug and that should be below the radio, maybe tucked up farther back, normally it is plugged into the switch on the right side of the auto shift assembly. 94

 

Didn't get a chance to look for the starter relay yet. It is near the ECU area?

Fcm, here are some pictures of the AT GS thingy that is sitting in the car. Not too sure what to look for though. Is what I need in these pictures, or do I need to trace these wires back?







Don't mind the tape looking stuff. The car still needs a lot of work of course.

 

Yes/ that is the A/T Gear Position Switch, and it looks like tinfoil was used to jump it.

Cut the black/red and black/white leads on the switch side of the plug and connect them together.

There will be no starter relay, the A/T Gear Position Switch is used instead to prevent starting in gear.94

 

Seems easy enough. I will try it out tonight. If this works and the tin foil was used to "jump" this, I have a feeling I will call the previous owner up afterwards and ask whatelse he hacked the **** up since that is ridiculous. I will report back tonight.

Thanks again fcm.

 

Cut and twisted the wires together. Car started up right away. No problems. Should that tin foil crap be removed? I must have had it in the "reverse" selector thingy, since it made the reverse lights come on as soon as I started the car. I will look into that a little more later I guess. Never knew my reverse lights were not working. :/



Anyways, I can't make this up, but I shut off the car, then tried to turn it on again and nothing... I do hear an extra click when the key goes to [III] now, so that wiring thing I did last night wasn't for nothing.

FCM, I went back to the beginning of the testing and I jumped the starter like in your first post of this thread (in the link) and the car started right up.

Any other suggestions? I appreciate the help.

 

The reverse light switch is also in the A/T Gear Position Switch wires from the reverse light switch in the manual transmission need to be run to the A/T Gear Position Switch and connected so the back up lights work properly.

Test for power at the connection you made, [black/white and black/red] while ign. key is in start position, the auto dash harness may also have a starter cut, [security] relay in it for a stock alarm.

Make sure that click you hear is not just comming from the PGM-FI Main Relay.94

 

No problem. I seems easy enough. I will research a few write ups on the swap and pick up where the previous owner left off.

I hear a louder click in the engine bay in addition to the fuel pump priming from the main relay. Not sure if that helps.

How do I do this? Do I need to pick up that test light? Sorry for the noob question.

 

The "louder" click from the engine bay will be the starter solenoid, probably not enough current on the starter lead to engage it properly.

If your going to do your own electrical troubleshooting, your going to need at least a 12V test light, get the kind, [cheaper] with the ordinary bulb in it, not the LED type.

Try re-twisting the black/red and black/white together again, soldering them would be best, even a merret will be better then just twisted.

You can also try supplying power to the twisted pair directly to see if that cranks the engine, the black/white is the lead from the ign, switch, the black/red goes to the starter motor.

The security starter cut relay is after the A/T Gear Position Switch, [black/red lead] on both auto and manual wiring harnesses.

Are you saying the click you hear when turning the ign. switch to start is from the engine bay or is there also one from under the dash?

If there is one from under the dash, just hold the PGM-FI Main Relay in your hand as you turn the key to start to see if it is the PGM-FI Main Relay making that click, 94

 

I will swing by a pepboys tonight on my way home and see if they have one. I won't be able to get over to the Integra until tomorrow morning. It is at my moms house currently.

Definitely. I just had them twisted to together for the time being and to test this theory. I will have a more solid connection by saturday afternoon.

I will see what I can do with that.

Do I need to do anything with this starter cut relay?

I hear the click for the fuel pump going on and off when the key is put into [II]. I hear a slightly more audible click coming from the engine bay area when the key is being turned to [III]

You got it. I will pull it out and physically hold it to confirm it is in fact clicking. Thanks.

 

There may or may not be a starter cut relay, that's the problem with a car modded by someone else, there is no way to know what was done, removed or left in place. 94

 

Ok, got into the car today and turned the key to see what would happen. It began to start as I was letting the key off of [III], turned it again and the care fired right up. Shut it off, then nothing. Played with it a bunch of times and the car randomly started again at some point during me playing with everything. Maybe there is a problem with the ignition?

I have a feeling that there is no starter cut relay.

Held the main relay in my hand and felt the clicks as the fuel pump primed the system and stopped, too.

 

The ign. switch is also a common problem on older Honda/Acura, to confirm you need that 12V test light, you would be connecting it at the black/white and black/red wire connection, or just stick it into the gray plug, [dash harness side to take the plug out of the circuit] at the black/white wire, that way you can keep an eye on the test light as you crank the to start the engine.

What you should see is the test light lighting up as the engine cranks, if the engine does not crank and the test light does not light up, the problem is the ign. switch, [or a connection between the switch and the gray plug] if the engine does not crank but test light does light up, the problem is not the ign. switch.

Move the test light down the line of the starter wire, first to the A/T Gear Position Switch side of the gray plug, then to the black/red on the dash harness side of the gray plug and so on down the line untill you reach the terminal on the starter solenoid, at some point you will find tha bad connection.

Ign. switch problems...
http://techauto.awardspace.com/ignitionswitch.html
http://www.visualimpressions.ca/switch/

Take my word for it, more Honda/Acura then listed have problems with the ign. switch and also other problems then listed. 94

 

Not sure if I am doing it correctly, but the test light I bought (found one in my step dads tool chest too) did not light up when trying to turn the key to crank. Should one lead be touching the black/red & black/white connection and another to a ground (body of the car)? Or should it be one lead off the test light on the red/black, and the other lead on the black/white wire? Sorry if you have explaned this already... I am absolutely terrible with wiring and testing. Visual learning is a must for me on this type of stuff. haha

Ok here is my theory:

1. The car was "jumped" using the tin foil prior to my ownership. I"messed" it up by moving the plastic piece around since I didn't know what is was when I first saw it. This allow the "jumped" connection to separate and began my no start issue.

2. I cleaned the ignition switch when troubleshooting the no start issue and most likely damaged something in it. One out of the 5 white tabs on the ignition switch broke as I tried to unclip it. I figured it was fine since it was only one clip.

3. Wires in the gear selector were jumped and now I am left with having inconsistent starting problems. If I push the key in hard and down to the floor slightly, it starts 75% of the time.

Pretty much, I created all of this, however the gear selector "jump" was horribly rigged, causing me to start cleaning and playing with more stuff. Fix one thing, break another.

FCM, let me know what you think.

 

Yes, the test light ground clip to cars chassis or any ground point, the test light probe touched to the connection of the black/red and black/white, [black/white is the lead from the ign. switch].

If you are not getting power there when ign. key is in the start position, then yes the switch is bad, replace it...

Check your local car parts stores it is avalable as an aftermarket from at least Beck Arnley and Standard, there may even be a few used OEM ones on eBay, but again USED. 94