Bought turbo Integra: Remove turbo and go NA or keep turbo system in?
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Bought turbo Integra: Remove turbo and go NA or keep turbo system in?
PLEASE CLOSE THREAD.
You can check the pictures link here:
pictures of the car on flickr
I bought this recently, and do not know the parts in it really. That said I recently had the manifold which was rewelded after it cracked apart once at the connection at the bottom to the downpipe crack open again, and my turbo is resting on my engine and downpipe is about th eonly thing holding it up. not good and need to fix quick. (disclaimer: the shop told me it was rewelded before i bought it, i didn't reweld it!)
options are:
A: rip out entire turbo system, replace turbo manifold with stock header
B: replace turbo manifold, downpipe, oil feed line <----- Help me with this, as I do not need help with choice A. I am hardheaded and I know the right choice is A, but I really want to go through the process of planning for B and before I order all the parts I will do some thinking. I just want to see if it is feasible and just how far away this setup is from running well.
this is according to a shop around me that is very reputable, been in business for over a decade and definitely know their stuff. but i was unsure why they told me i could either get those 3 pieces or that 1 piece depending on how i decide to go because wouldn't the down pipe, if there was an issue, need to be replaced either way of me going back to stock header or replacing turbo manifold? why just if i go with turbo did they tell me to replace the down pipe? Doesn't make sense to me? Maybe just an oversight/miscommunication on their part.
I have done a few hours research every day for the last couple days and have immensely more knowledge about turbo systems then I had previously. That said I know I do not know as much as you guys and am still humble and continuing to read voraciously.
I rewrote this original post as the version below was just a pile of words that nobody would read, and i cannot blame them.
So please head down to the bottom of the thread and assist me in planning the turbo route, choice B. I would prefer more direct answers to my technical questions and less guidance as to whether or not things are a good idea etc... I prefer to live and learn.
---===== IGNORE BELOW UNLESS YOU REALLY ARE INTERESTED!!!! JUST READ ABOVE!!!!=====---
Hello. This is my first post. I discuss my car, modifications, issue at hand, information I have gathered, and my thoughts. As such it is long. I guess I can expect few replies, but I am hoping that my link to the pictures will at least get some curious people to look through them and showcase their knowledge by naming any aftermarket parts I have, what brand they are, or other notable modifications to my vehicle.
Background: I bought this 98 Integra LS? last month. Was simply looking for something to get from point A to point B to replace the Lexus ES300 I had just totaled
I knew nothing about this car really. I had virtually no history to go with it, other than the guy who sold it to me said it was his brothers who traded it to him for a larger vehicle for his family, that it can burn v6 mustangs, and that he used it at/has it set for 10lbs of boost.I have taken it to a well known and well respected performance shop that luckily happens to be near where I am living currently and had them do some minor work and take a quick look over it. He also said the check engine light is on but it is due to a leak in the exhaust piping that he said can easily/cheaply be sealed up. We shall see...
I have included a link to pictures of the car on flickr. They include interior and exterior pictures. Ultimately I would like to identify and if needed service all the parts up to optimal working condition.
The Question: The reason for this post is that my turbo manifold has cracked right where the bottom attaches to the downpipe (broke off on the manifold side of the join). They could tell it was already cracked and resealed before being sold to me, and that it was no wonder it broke apart again on me. I need to decide whether to replace the turbo manifold with a stock OEM integra header for $75 used from craigslist or a brand new aftermarket one for around $100 from the internet and remove the entire turbo system that is installed and go NA or I can replace the turbo manifold, the downpipe (dunno why but they said this is one of the 3 parts I need to bring them), and oil feed line. Also is ceramic better than stainless steel? pros and cons?
I do not know what to do because they said the turbo parts aren't high quality name brand parts and that I should remove all the turbo parts and go NA until later on in life when I purchase a ~$4000 quality brand name kit but I also would like to make use of the already purchased and installed intercooler, blowoff valve, piping, boost gauge, etc all already installed on my vehicle. I miss the pssstttt I used to hear when I got off the gas before the manifold broke
I need to figure out what to do fast, because I am currently driving my car around with the manifold expelling directly out of the broken bottom end of it directly into my engine bay rather then through the down pipe and out my muffler... The tiny bottom piece from the manifold still attached to the manifold is staring up at me, and the turbo is still there but very unsupported and literally leaning/lying/wedged in onto my engine block. They told me the turbo and attached down pipe and exhaust system could literally just drop out of the bottom of my car while driving onto the ground. They said it's not safe to drive really and that the engine blasting straight out of the manifold into my engine bay onto an oil soaked turbo could cause a fire and that when I start my car there is almost surely flames shooting out of my manifold!? I keep driving it daily and have put hundreds of miles on it in this state... I need to get from place to place, but I know if I do not replace the turbo parts or the header and go NA asap I am playing with fire and I could be looking at serious damage to my car and possibly myself.
The biggest reason for my hesitation for going back to the turbo system is I am unaware if the previous owner did/installed any kind of fuel enrichment/pump whatever for the increased demand for fuel that a turbocharger would cause. I also am unaware if there is a modified/flashed edu, or hondata/neptune/whatever setup in my vehicle.
I figured if nothing was done to the fuel system while it was running with the turbo that I would be running lean and cause such serious damage that it wouldn't have lasted long enough for him to sell it to me, or for me to have driven it for a 1000 miles or so over the last month or so. If it was chipped/modified and it was running as it should while turbo'ed then now since it is not utilizing the turbo I must be running rich now right? How could I tell? Would that cause a gas smell in my cab or any other noticeable sign?
I am trying to figure out what is done with my car for the long term, as well as over the short term figure out what I need exactly for the turbo manifold, down pipe, and oil feed line that I need to replace if I go turbo. If I go NA it is simple enough that I can handle that route logistically
If going NA:
sample of header i would buy, if buying new
If going FI:
Manfiold: So far from my pictures I have deduced that I need a 35/35mm wastegate flange and not 40mm, and that I need 4 bolt not 5? I think 40mm" setups are squareish 4 bolt connections on the wastegate but 35/38mm ones have that oval shaped connection. Also appears I should go with a tubular, bottom mount setup. sample of what i would buy
Down pipe: I measured piping circumference going into and out of my intercooler and for my cold air intake since I couldn't reach the down pipe to measure, but I got 8" for the ones I could reach which I calculated is 2.5" in diameter (I know the down-pipe can be different from the other piping, but it just leads me to believe it is VERY likely it is 2.5"). sample of what i would buy
Oil Feed Line: Guessing I need a "standard" Made of 3/8 diameter, Braided ,1/8 NPT adaptor, line Length: 36 type kit with all the fittings included. sample of what i would buy
In summary, if I do indeed need further parts such as an edu, fuel system modifications, expensive tuning, etc done after completion of turbo system repair then I will likely go NA over keeping the FI setup.
One thing I found strange is that if I stick with FI they said I would need to replace the down pipe, but only mentioned the header if I go back to NA. Wouldn't the header replace the turbo manifold and connect to the down pipe? why would I need to replace the down pipe for going one route and not for the other? the manifold piece can be unscrewed from the down pipe either way correct?
About the car: I always heard people with civics and integers having this loud buzzing muffler that has a crackling/popping at it's highest point/higher rpm, and just sounds like "oh god what a ricer i wanna kick that bumblebee sounding POS off your car". I always thought you needed a big engine to sound good. Of course it sounds great coming straight out of the cracked manifold, but the exhaust system, before it cracked is top notch! My car sounds sooo nice and rumbly and deep and I'm not embarrassed to drive it! (well as long as nobody sees my harness and racing seat
)
mods:
mugen front strut bar
unknown front bumper
unknown back bumper
unknown sideskirt. yes, the drive side skirt is no longer with us.
underbody LED lights
unknown rims
racing seats
4 point harnesses, mounted along with roll bar in back
no rear seats, cleanly done entire back behind front seats is flat and covered with grey interior
RS1 racing pedals
no center console, unknown emergency brake, unknown shifter
Unresolved problems: when letting off the gas when traveling at high speeds a banging/clanging noise can be heard like something slapping against something in rhythm with the rotations of the tires it would seem. sounds like it is coming from front right and less often front left. I suspect something to do with mounts, axles, wheels, dunno. Also early on but not over the 2nd half of the period of time I have owned it I would hear a sound as if a box was sliding in the trunk and hitting another box when again getting off the accelerator at higher speeds. It is independent of rpm's and related to speed, and as soon as it does occur, I can make it stop immediately by either getting on the brake or gas again. I can generally avoid it by decelerating slowly from higher speeds instead of just taking my foot of the gas completely right away.
You can check the pictures link here:
pictures of the car on flickr
I bought this recently, and do not know the parts in it really. That said I recently had the manifold which was rewelded after it cracked apart once at the connection at the bottom to the downpipe crack open again, and my turbo is resting on my engine and downpipe is about th eonly thing holding it up. not good and need to fix quick. (disclaimer: the shop told me it was rewelded before i bought it, i didn't reweld it!)
options are:
A: rip out entire turbo system, replace turbo manifold with stock header
B: replace turbo manifold, downpipe, oil feed line <----- Help me with this, as I do not need help with choice A. I am hardheaded and I know the right choice is A, but I really want to go through the process of planning for B and before I order all the parts I will do some thinking. I just want to see if it is feasible and just how far away this setup is from running well.
this is according to a shop around me that is very reputable, been in business for over a decade and definitely know their stuff. but i was unsure why they told me i could either get those 3 pieces or that 1 piece depending on how i decide to go because wouldn't the down pipe, if there was an issue, need to be replaced either way of me going back to stock header or replacing turbo manifold? why just if i go with turbo did they tell me to replace the down pipe? Doesn't make sense to me? Maybe just an oversight/miscommunication on their part.
I have done a few hours research every day for the last couple days and have immensely more knowledge about turbo systems then I had previously. That said I know I do not know as much as you guys and am still humble and continuing to read voraciously.
I rewrote this original post as the version below was just a pile of words that nobody would read, and i cannot blame them.
So please head down to the bottom of the thread and assist me in planning the turbo route, choice B. I would prefer more direct answers to my technical questions and less guidance as to whether or not things are a good idea etc... I prefer to live and learn.
---===== IGNORE BELOW UNLESS YOU REALLY ARE INTERESTED!!!! JUST READ ABOVE!!!!=====---
Hello. This is my first post. I discuss my car, modifications, issue at hand, information I have gathered, and my thoughts. As such it is long. I guess I can expect few replies, but I am hoping that my link to the pictures will at least get some curious people to look through them and showcase their knowledge by naming any aftermarket parts I have, what brand they are, or other notable modifications to my vehicle.
Background: I bought this 98 Integra LS? last month. Was simply looking for something to get from point A to point B to replace the Lexus ES300 I had just totaled
I knew nothing about this car really. I had virtually no history to go with it, other than the guy who sold it to me said it was his brothers who traded it to him for a larger vehicle for his family, that it can burn v6 mustangs, and that he used it at/has it set for 10lbs of boost.I have taken it to a well known and well respected performance shop that luckily happens to be near where I am living currently and had them do some minor work and take a quick look over it. He also said the check engine light is on but it is due to a leak in the exhaust piping that he said can easily/cheaply be sealed up. We shall see...
I have included a link to pictures of the car on flickr. They include interior and exterior pictures. Ultimately I would like to identify and if needed service all the parts up to optimal working condition.
The Question: The reason for this post is that my turbo manifold has cracked right where the bottom attaches to the downpipe (broke off on the manifold side of the join). They could tell it was already cracked and resealed before being sold to me, and that it was no wonder it broke apart again on me. I need to decide whether to replace the turbo manifold with a stock OEM integra header for $75 used from craigslist or a brand new aftermarket one for around $100 from the internet and remove the entire turbo system that is installed and go NA or I can replace the turbo manifold, the downpipe (dunno why but they said this is one of the 3 parts I need to bring them), and oil feed line. Also is ceramic better than stainless steel? pros and cons?
I do not know what to do because they said the turbo parts aren't high quality name brand parts and that I should remove all the turbo parts and go NA until later on in life when I purchase a ~$4000 quality brand name kit but I also would like to make use of the already purchased and installed intercooler, blowoff valve, piping, boost gauge, etc all already installed on my vehicle. I miss the pssstttt I used to hear when I got off the gas before the manifold broke
I need to figure out what to do fast, because I am currently driving my car around with the manifold expelling directly out of the broken bottom end of it directly into my engine bay rather then through the down pipe and out my muffler... The tiny bottom piece from the manifold still attached to the manifold is staring up at me, and the turbo is still there but very unsupported and literally leaning/lying/wedged in onto my engine block. They told me the turbo and attached down pipe and exhaust system could literally just drop out of the bottom of my car while driving onto the ground. They said it's not safe to drive really and that the engine blasting straight out of the manifold into my engine bay onto an oil soaked turbo could cause a fire and that when I start my car there is almost surely flames shooting out of my manifold!? I keep driving it daily and have put hundreds of miles on it in this state... I need to get from place to place, but I know if I do not replace the turbo parts or the header and go NA asap I am playing with fire and I could be looking at serious damage to my car and possibly myself.
The biggest reason for my hesitation for going back to the turbo system is I am unaware if the previous owner did/installed any kind of fuel enrichment/pump whatever for the increased demand for fuel that a turbocharger would cause. I also am unaware if there is a modified/flashed edu, or hondata/neptune/whatever setup in my vehicle.
I figured if nothing was done to the fuel system while it was running with the turbo that I would be running lean and cause such serious damage that it wouldn't have lasted long enough for him to sell it to me, or for me to have driven it for a 1000 miles or so over the last month or so. If it was chipped/modified and it was running as it should while turbo'ed then now since it is not utilizing the turbo I must be running rich now right? How could I tell? Would that cause a gas smell in my cab or any other noticeable sign?
I am trying to figure out what is done with my car for the long term, as well as over the short term figure out what I need exactly for the turbo manifold, down pipe, and oil feed line that I need to replace if I go turbo. If I go NA it is simple enough that I can handle that route logistically
If going NA:
sample of header i would buy, if buying new
If going FI:
Manfiold: So far from my pictures I have deduced that I need a 35/35mm wastegate flange and not 40mm, and that I need 4 bolt not 5? I think 40mm" setups are squareish 4 bolt connections on the wastegate but 35/38mm ones have that oval shaped connection. Also appears I should go with a tubular, bottom mount setup. sample of what i would buy
Down pipe: I measured piping circumference going into and out of my intercooler and for my cold air intake since I couldn't reach the down pipe to measure, but I got 8" for the ones I could reach which I calculated is 2.5" in diameter (I know the down-pipe can be different from the other piping, but it just leads me to believe it is VERY likely it is 2.5"). sample of what i would buy
Oil Feed Line: Guessing I need a "standard" Made of 3/8 diameter, Braided ,1/8 NPT adaptor, line Length: 36 type kit with all the fittings included. sample of what i would buy
In summary, if I do indeed need further parts such as an edu, fuel system modifications, expensive tuning, etc done after completion of turbo system repair then I will likely go NA over keeping the FI setup.
One thing I found strange is that if I stick with FI they said I would need to replace the down pipe, but only mentioned the header if I go back to NA. Wouldn't the header replace the turbo manifold and connect to the down pipe? why would I need to replace the down pipe for going one route and not for the other? the manifold piece can be unscrewed from the down pipe either way correct?
About the car: I always heard people with civics and integers having this loud buzzing muffler that has a crackling/popping at it's highest point/higher rpm, and just sounds like "oh god what a ricer i wanna kick that bumblebee sounding POS off your car". I always thought you needed a big engine to sound good. Of course it sounds great coming straight out of the cracked manifold, but the exhaust system, before it cracked is top notch! My car sounds sooo nice and rumbly and deep and I'm not embarrassed to drive it! (well as long as nobody sees my harness and racing seat
)mods:
mugen front strut bar
unknown front bumper
unknown back bumper
unknown sideskirt. yes, the drive side skirt is no longer with us.
underbody LED lights
unknown rims
racing seats
4 point harnesses, mounted along with roll bar in back
no rear seats, cleanly done entire back behind front seats is flat and covered with grey interior
RS1 racing pedals
no center console, unknown emergency brake, unknown shifter
Unresolved problems: when letting off the gas when traveling at high speeds a banging/clanging noise can be heard like something slapping against something in rhythm with the rotations of the tires it would seem. sounds like it is coming from front right and less often front left. I suspect something to do with mounts, axles, wheels, dunno. Also early on but not over the 2nd half of the period of time I have owned it I would hear a sound as if a box was sliding in the trunk and hitting another box when again getting off the accelerator at higher speeds. It is independent of rpm's and related to speed, and as soon as it does occur, I can make it stop immediately by either getting on the brake or gas again. I can generally avoid it by decelerating slowly from higher speeds instead of just taking my foot of the gas completely right away.
Last edited by foxdie; Nov 26, 2012 at 03:32 PM. Reason: CAN BE CLOSED
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Mar 2012
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Re: Bought turbo Integra: Remove turbo and go NA or keep turbo system in?
This is way long, but I'm not sure a Turbo Integra is best for a A-B car if you don't know anything about them. Sure, they can be SUPER reliable, but you need to know about modifying cars and adding turbo systems to a non-turbo'd car.
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From: colorado springs, co, albania
Re: Bought turbo Integra: Remove turbo and go NA or keep turbo system in?
^^x2
You can get replacement parts cheap if you wanna keep it turbo.NA would be best for daily driving but if the turbo system is tuned right it can be fine too.
You can get replacement parts cheap if you wanna keep it turbo.NA would be best for daily driving but if the turbo system is tuned right it can be fine too.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,114
Likes: 5
From: Pensacola, FL and every Court House in Louisiana
Re: Bought turbo Integra: Remove turbo and go NA or keep turbo system in?
Hopefully this should be a lesson learned to never buy someone else's project without extensive documentation.
You should do what is you can afford. If you have the money to be able to afford the added cost of a FI car than go for it and work on getting better quality parts. If you dont have the funds then go back to NA and sell off the turbo parts.
It really boils down to what you want and can afford!!!
Thread Starter
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 46
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Re: Bought turbo Integra: Remove turbo and go NA or keep turbo system in?
Before I get flamed more let me explain. I needed a car ASAP to get places everyday. I was stuck with no transportation. I totally believe in utilizing carfax, getting a thorough prepurchase inspection, and not dropping thousands on a car I know nothing about. It had only 110k miles on it and tons of mods and I got it for $2500 so I hope people can understand why I purchased it...
I'm on my phone but when I'm back on my Mac ill read everyone's replies and respond accordingly. Thanks to everyone for their help in guiding me in what decision to make as I need to make a choice extremely soon and order all the parts ASAP. Awesome forum.
I'm on my phone but when I'm back on my Mac ill read everyone's replies and respond accordingly. Thanks to everyone for their help in guiding me in what decision to make as I need to make a choice extremely soon and order all the parts ASAP. Awesome forum.
Re: Bought turbo Integra: Remove turbo and go NA or keep turbo system in?
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Old Fart
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 26,173
Likes: 18
From: kelowna, bc, canada
Re: Bought turbo Integra: Remove turbo and go NA or keep turbo system in?
Pull the turbo and go NA, a few months of driving it. [NA] will give you an idea of the actual condition of the engine and the rest of the car, then you can decide if you want to go turbo and get better parts, sell off the junk you now have, keep what you may use later. 94
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From: I like girls
Re: Bought turbo Integra: Remove turbo and go NA or keep turbo system in?
Manifold looks like one of the many cheap "ebay" specials, you need to replace it asap.
If you go back to stock, you'll most likely need a stock obd2a ecu, and fuel injectors.
Driving it around the way it is will definitely result in your whole turbo falling off the car.
And unless you plan on putting a role cage in, I would ditch the harnesses quick.
It's much more dangerous in the situation you get into a rollover with them.
Also, Turbos and high hp may not be the best thing for an auto tranny.
With the kit that's on there I would assume it's not a lot, but it's still semi risky depending on how hard it was driven.
So with that, if you need an A-B vehicle, go back to stock. Turbo it later.
If you go back to stock, you'll most likely need a stock obd2a ecu, and fuel injectors.
Driving it around the way it is will definitely result in your whole turbo falling off the car.
And unless you plan on putting a role cage in, I would ditch the harnesses quick.
It's much more dangerous in the situation you get into a rollover with them.
Also, Turbos and high hp may not be the best thing for an auto tranny.
With the kit that's on there I would assume it's not a lot, but it's still semi risky depending on how hard it was driven.
So with that, if you need an A-B vehicle, go back to stock. Turbo it later.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Nov 2012
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Re: Bought turbo Integra: Remove turbo and go NA or keep turbo system in?
Thank you so much guys for your help! I appreciate your opinions and know that the logical and best choice for me would be to go stock. If I can pull off doing the turbo setup right / choose to do it anyway I would appreciate your help here in figuring out a few things.
CRACKED MANIFOLD:
CleanLikeJdm, yes the manifold is cracked and being replaced. I will do my best to find the best turbo manifold I can get my hands on realistically. As far as the going back to stock odb2a edu and fuel injectors, I was under the impression that I HAD the stock ecu and stock fuel injectors. I thought my car was getting by with the stock ecu. I just figured whoever owned this car wasn't super up on things and wouldn't have spent the time/money to get a proper modified ecu/fuel system upgrade completed. If I in fact have one, then my car, running without the turbo as it is right now, is surely running extremely RICH right!? any other signs or dangers of this being the case?
AVOIDING ECU MANIPULATION/MODDING:
Most of my research and questions going forward are related to skirting the needs of a serious, high powered, top notch turbo setup that would include aftermarket ecu chipping and programming, dynoing, customizing fuel maps, dealing with crome/hondata whatever else and trying to work with some of what I have currently and go for something that may only reliably handle 5-10lbs of boost for years of use and that would be totally fine with me. I was reading into using an safc and getting bigger injectors if needed and leaning them out to the proper amount of fuel/air for my engine. Is that a possible general idea rather than dealing with all that ecu/dyno/tuning? This is what I think based on internet reading, and not the experience you guys have under your belt so I am here to learn from you.
If someone could clarify what the(a) alternative to "messing" with the ecu is for turbo setups I would appreciate it, but it seems the main reason for the safc/ecu stuff is for fuel. That is, the management, transportation, and regulation of fuel to my engine, and that I can avoid the ecu "stuff" by going a different route. For my low hp goals/having lower degree of standards for my setup then I would for a dream setup on a very new expensive vehicle, this is the route I would like to go.
TURBO SYSTEM PARTS THAT I DO NOT BELIEVE I HAVE INSTALLED:
Concerning the following: high volume/pressure fuel pumps, high volume fuel rails, upgraded fuel injectors, fuel pressure regulators, and high flow fuel filters; Which are items that would replace stock items to provide improvements where it is a straight up upgrade and can't hurt so to speak, and which of these things are ONLY used specifically if the need for aftermarket replacements with higher supporting capacities is required? Like the "upgrading" of one of these aforementioned can actually be detrimental to my setup? Feel free to tell me to go fvck myself and read and learn about them rather than have you tell me, just wanted to see if i could get a shortcut to what i need so i can focus on learning more about those things first.
STOCK PARTS FOR BOOST ASPIRATIONS OF ONLY 5-10LBS MAX?:
Finally out of the important-in-many-setups parts mentioned above, which do you think that with low boost goals such as 5-10lbs of boost that I could comfortably/safely get by with using the stock parts (if they are stock) already in my car?
YES ITS NOT IDEAL, BUT I HAVE THE TURBO SYSTEM ALREADY:
Please realize that this car came with stuff and unless its going to make my engine explode, I would rather get it to working condition and use what was already paid for and paid to be installed and just get the parts it needs to run properly. Obviously if all these parts were in boxes in my house I wouldn't go install all of them and turbo this car. I just want to work with the setup that is already in there, even if it isn't golden quality premium stuff. I plan on replacing the parts that are busted/shitty with higher quality parts. Surely things like the piping, intercooler, blow off valve, manifold could very well be ok and last for a very long time. On the other hand, I definitely would plan on replacing the turbo eventually for something totally legit like a garrett or turbonetics turbo.
FOUR POINT HARNESSES:
Cleanlikedm, is it seriously true that connecting harnesses to a roll bar and not a full roll cage will lead to greatly increased odds of injury/death?! I thought it was only unsafe if you had racing harnesses and just attached them to whatever in your car and didn't install a proper rollbar or rollcage. Anyone else's thoughts? I have read contrary to what I believe you are saying which is why I ask again to ensure I am understanding you. I just have seen countless people online use rollbar setups instead of full rollcages and not have other members on forums blink an eye to it, as well as articles discussing rollbars being ok.
http://www.schroth.com/installation-.../en/index.html
That is a very in-depth serious guide to harness safety just for anyones interest.
fcm, this is definitely the logical and smart move, to take it back to NA and drive it for a few months. I wouldn't throw in THESE parts in THIS car but I am just hard pressed to get myself to want to not replace 3 relatively cheaper pieces of my setup and just go back to the setup I have already paid for and installed in there. I also fear taking the turbo out and going back to NA, I may run into issues if the engine/injectors/fuel regulation/ecu have been modified in anyway and I suddenly rip out all the turbo setup and drive away. It may cost more to take the who turbo system out as well regarding the shop. Also I don't own the parts to replace parts that would require a stock part in place of it, which would cost me money i don't want to spend on this car. It is a beater and temporary, and I just really wanna get it back to how it was so I can enjoy it how it was and if it breaks in 2 years then so be it.
PLEASE CLOSE THREAD.
Thanks everyone for your opinions and helping me decide which way to take things as well as providing great advice for a new guy.
CRACKED MANIFOLD:
CleanLikeJdm, yes the manifold is cracked and being replaced. I will do my best to find the best turbo manifold I can get my hands on realistically. As far as the going back to stock odb2a edu and fuel injectors, I was under the impression that I HAD the stock ecu and stock fuel injectors. I thought my car was getting by with the stock ecu. I just figured whoever owned this car wasn't super up on things and wouldn't have spent the time/money to get a proper modified ecu/fuel system upgrade completed. If I in fact have one, then my car, running without the turbo as it is right now, is surely running extremely RICH right!? any other signs or dangers of this being the case?
AVOIDING ECU MANIPULATION/MODDING:
Most of my research and questions going forward are related to skirting the needs of a serious, high powered, top notch turbo setup that would include aftermarket ecu chipping and programming, dynoing, customizing fuel maps, dealing with crome/hondata whatever else and trying to work with some of what I have currently and go for something that may only reliably handle 5-10lbs of boost for years of use and that would be totally fine with me. I was reading into using an safc and getting bigger injectors if needed and leaning them out to the proper amount of fuel/air for my engine. Is that a possible general idea rather than dealing with all that ecu/dyno/tuning? This is what I think based on internet reading, and not the experience you guys have under your belt so I am here to learn from you.
If someone could clarify what the(a) alternative to "messing" with the ecu is for turbo setups I would appreciate it, but it seems the main reason for the safc/ecu stuff is for fuel. That is, the management, transportation, and regulation of fuel to my engine, and that I can avoid the ecu "stuff" by going a different route. For my low hp goals/having lower degree of standards for my setup then I would for a dream setup on a very new expensive vehicle, this is the route I would like to go.
TURBO SYSTEM PARTS THAT I DO NOT BELIEVE I HAVE INSTALLED:
Concerning the following: high volume/pressure fuel pumps, high volume fuel rails, upgraded fuel injectors, fuel pressure regulators, and high flow fuel filters; Which are items that would replace stock items to provide improvements where it is a straight up upgrade and can't hurt so to speak, and which of these things are ONLY used specifically if the need for aftermarket replacements with higher supporting capacities is required? Like the "upgrading" of one of these aforementioned can actually be detrimental to my setup? Feel free to tell me to go fvck myself and read and learn about them rather than have you tell me, just wanted to see if i could get a shortcut to what i need so i can focus on learning more about those things first.
STOCK PARTS FOR BOOST ASPIRATIONS OF ONLY 5-10LBS MAX?:
Finally out of the important-in-many-setups parts mentioned above, which do you think that with low boost goals such as 5-10lbs of boost that I could comfortably/safely get by with using the stock parts (if they are stock) already in my car?
YES ITS NOT IDEAL, BUT I HAVE THE TURBO SYSTEM ALREADY:
Please realize that this car came with stuff and unless its going to make my engine explode, I would rather get it to working condition and use what was already paid for and paid to be installed and just get the parts it needs to run properly. Obviously if all these parts were in boxes in my house I wouldn't go install all of them and turbo this car. I just want to work with the setup that is already in there, even if it isn't golden quality premium stuff. I plan on replacing the parts that are busted/shitty with higher quality parts. Surely things like the piping, intercooler, blow off valve, manifold could very well be ok and last for a very long time. On the other hand, I definitely would plan on replacing the turbo eventually for something totally legit like a garrett or turbonetics turbo.
FOUR POINT HARNESSES:
Cleanlikedm, is it seriously true that connecting harnesses to a roll bar and not a full roll cage will lead to greatly increased odds of injury/death?! I thought it was only unsafe if you had racing harnesses and just attached them to whatever in your car and didn't install a proper rollbar or rollcage. Anyone else's thoughts? I have read contrary to what I believe you are saying which is why I ask again to ensure I am understanding you. I just have seen countless people online use rollbar setups instead of full rollcages and not have other members on forums blink an eye to it, as well as articles discussing rollbars being ok.
http://www.schroth.com/installation-.../en/index.html
That is a very in-depth serious guide to harness safety just for anyones interest.
Manifold looks like one of the many cheap "ebay" specials, you need to replace it asap.
If you go back to stock, you'll most likely need a stock obd2a ecu, and fuel injectors.
Driving it around the way it is will definitely result in your whole turbo falling off the car.
And unless you plan on putting a role cage in, I would ditch the harnesses quick.
It's much more dangerous in the situation you get into a rollover with them.
Also, Turbos and high hp may not be the best thing for an auto tranny.
With the kit that's on there I would assume it's not a lot, but it's still semi risky depending on how hard it was driven.
So with that, if you need an A-B vehicle, go back to stock. Turbo it later.
If you go back to stock, you'll most likely need a stock obd2a ecu, and fuel injectors.
Driving it around the way it is will definitely result in your whole turbo falling off the car.
And unless you plan on putting a role cage in, I would ditch the harnesses quick.
It's much more dangerous in the situation you get into a rollover with them.
Also, Turbos and high hp may not be the best thing for an auto tranny.
With the kit that's on there I would assume it's not a lot, but it's still semi risky depending on how hard it was driven.
So with that, if you need an A-B vehicle, go back to stock. Turbo it later.
fcm, this is definitely the logical and smart move, to take it back to NA and drive it for a few months. I wouldn't throw in THESE parts in THIS car but I am just hard pressed to get myself to want to not replace 3 relatively cheaper pieces of my setup and just go back to the setup I have already paid for and installed in there. I also fear taking the turbo out and going back to NA, I may run into issues if the engine/injectors/fuel regulation/ecu have been modified in anyway and I suddenly rip out all the turbo setup and drive away. It may cost more to take the who turbo system out as well regarding the shop. Also I don't own the parts to replace parts that would require a stock part in place of it, which would cost me money i don't want to spend on this car. It is a beater and temporary, and I just really wanna get it back to how it was so I can enjoy it how it was and if it breaks in 2 years then so be it.
Thanks everyone for your opinions and helping me decide which way to take things as well as providing great advice for a new guy.
Last edited by foxdie; Nov 26, 2012 at 03:34 PM. Reason: CAN BE CLOSED
Hype-R Stalker
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Re: Bought turbo Integra: Remove turbo and go NA or keep turbo system in?
Thank you so much guys for your help! I appreciate your opinions and know that the logical and best choice for me would be to go stock. If I can pull off doing the turbo setup right / choose to do it anyway I would appreciate your help here in figuring out a few things.
CRACKED MANIFOLD:
If I in fact have one, then my car, running without the turbo as it is right now, is surely running extremely RICH right!? any other signs or dangers of this being the case?
If your car is still on the stock ecu with no modification to the fuel system,
it'll be running very lean under boost and if seeing 10lbs of boost on the stock map sensor it will trip the check engine light.
AVOIDING ECU MANIPULATION/MODDING:
Safc/vafc is an outdated way of tuning with what we have available now.
Running a tuned ecu with either a proper street or dyno tune is the best way to go.
If you don't want to go with hondata, there are cheaper alternatives such as crome.
But you Definitely want to get some kind of tune done, which will need an obd1 ecu.
If the car was tuned, then you should have a conversion harness already.
Although if it wasn't, it could be on an FMU which raises fuel pressure as it sees more boost.
TURBO SYSTEM PARTS THAT I DO NOT BELIEVE I HAVE INSTALLED:
Concerning the following: high volume/pressure fuel pumps, high volume fuel rails, upgraded fuel injectors, fuel pressure regulators, and high flow fuel filters;
I would go with a walboro 255hp, and 550cc injectors.
For the hp level you're shooting for an aftermarket rail or fpr isn't needed.
STOCK PARTS FOR BOOST ASPIRATIONS OF ONLY 5-10LBS MAX?:
With your stock internals and an auto tranny, I wouldn't go higher than 200 hp.
YES ITS NOT IDEAL, BUT I HAVE THE TURBO SYSTEM ALREADY:
Depending on if this a full xspower or w/e other kit, the turbo could fail whenever.
They're not known to have the best life expectancy, so it's more of a gamble.
FOUR POINT HARNESSES:
Does the car have a rollbar, or harness bar in it for them?
They should be mounted at shoulder height, and with at least a rollbar.
But it's really not necessary unless it's a full on racecar.
CRACKED MANIFOLD:
If I in fact have one, then my car, running without the turbo as it is right now, is surely running extremely RICH right!? any other signs or dangers of this being the case?
If your car is still on the stock ecu with no modification to the fuel system,
it'll be running very lean under boost and if seeing 10lbs of boost on the stock map sensor it will trip the check engine light.
AVOIDING ECU MANIPULATION/MODDING:
Safc/vafc is an outdated way of tuning with what we have available now.
Running a tuned ecu with either a proper street or dyno tune is the best way to go.
If you don't want to go with hondata, there are cheaper alternatives such as crome.
But you Definitely want to get some kind of tune done, which will need an obd1 ecu.
If the car was tuned, then you should have a conversion harness already.
Although if it wasn't, it could be on an FMU which raises fuel pressure as it sees more boost.
TURBO SYSTEM PARTS THAT I DO NOT BELIEVE I HAVE INSTALLED:
Concerning the following: high volume/pressure fuel pumps, high volume fuel rails, upgraded fuel injectors, fuel pressure regulators, and high flow fuel filters;
I would go with a walboro 255hp, and 550cc injectors.
For the hp level you're shooting for an aftermarket rail or fpr isn't needed.
STOCK PARTS FOR BOOST ASPIRATIONS OF ONLY 5-10LBS MAX?:
With your stock internals and an auto tranny, I wouldn't go higher than 200 hp.
YES ITS NOT IDEAL, BUT I HAVE THE TURBO SYSTEM ALREADY:
Depending on if this a full xspower or w/e other kit, the turbo could fail whenever.
They're not known to have the best life expectancy, so it's more of a gamble.
FOUR POINT HARNESSES:
Does the car have a rollbar, or harness bar in it for them?
They should be mounted at shoulder height, and with at least a rollbar.
But it's really not necessary unless it's a full on racecar.
Man U FTW
Joined: Sep 2005
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From: Phoenix, AZ
Re: Bought turbo Integra: Remove turbo and go NA or keep turbo system in?
IMO, the only real way to fix the turbo setup is to un-install the entire thing and assess where you stand. The parts worth keeping should be cleaned, inspected, and re-installed properly. After you know what needs to be replaced, go about finding replacement parts, and when you have everything on-hand and accounted for, then install. In the mean time, it'd be best to run the car on stock ecu/injectors. I'm not sure if this is feasible or not...
This is why people with no/limited knowledge of turbo setups shouldn't buy an aftermarket turbo car. Unless you know how to do everything yourself, it becomes an unreliable money pit in a hurry. Having said that, if you know what to look for/look out for, you can often find good deals on used turbo cars. IF it has an eBay manifold or turbo, walk away immediately
This is why people with no/limited knowledge of turbo setups shouldn't buy an aftermarket turbo car. Unless you know how to do everything yourself, it becomes an unreliable money pit in a hurry. Having said that, if you know what to look for/look out for, you can often find good deals on used turbo cars. IF it has an eBay manifold or turbo, walk away immediately
Thread Starter
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
Re: Bought turbo Integra: Remove turbo and go NA or keep turbo system in?
And spend money to replace them? Uh I'll pass. I don't find them bad and certainly not bad enough to pay to remove and replace them with new parts! I don't wanna spend money on stuff like new bumpers really. Definitely replacing missing side skirt is higher on he list heh
Thread Starter
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 46
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Re: Bought turbo Integra: Remove turbo and go NA or keep turbo system in?
This makes sense and I hear you schister. Again. Needed car and was oversll best value even if i immediately removed the entire turbo setup. Well this had an ebay manifold and turbo heh. And I just bought another ebay turbo manifold to replace it. Gotta get something in ther quick so I have one that isn't broke. This is a beater and I'm fine with throwing low end **** on it. I've decided to go turbo and ordered the parts I needed so we can close this thread. Thanks all.
Thread Starter
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Nov 2012
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Re: Bought turbo Integra: Remove turbo and go NA or keep turbo system in?
Hey I really appreciate your response in particular!
Thanks for explaining that the reason it could have a check engine light is because of what you listed.
I know tuning is the right way to go but if i just want this car to run at even 75% efficency or lifespan turbosetup wise id rather go the cheaper older easier route with just an fmu, etc
also thanks for saying to stay below 200hp with stock internals and tranny. and not telling me this is retarded and impossible and to just blow my car up now or switch to manual. yeah 195 horsepower is plenty if i can get that much.
the racing harness is totally unnecessary just like the racing seats, or for that matter the roll bar or the body kit. its all ricer **** that i don't mind being on there enough to remove it. the seats are insanely comfortable and the seatbelts arent that bad annoyancewise. Yes there is a proper roll bar and i inspected it layman style and it seems well installed and secure and the belts seem threaded as they should be according to racing foundation safety site documentation.
so do you think if i find out there is NO fuel/air or tuning management completed that my best route as far as my mind seems set is to definitely at least throw an fmu in there? what ratio? 12:1 for this kinda situation and application? and the better fuel pump, i was gonna get that. i could have them install it during my next appointment when they put in my new turbo manifold, new oil feed line, and new downpipe. or do you think i could save the money and the stock pump will be sufficient for sub 10psi boost?
How do i see what the boost is set at roughly? how do i adjust it? my boost controller looks like this:
installed in my car: http://www.flickr.com/photos/98integ...7632005322896/
on ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/UNIVERSAL-BL...70c135&vxp=mtr
for anyone having problems installing these or getting them to work, they are a knock off of this treadstone turbosmart product from what i have seen and others have had success using their instructions and guidelines to install the ebay version:
http://www.treadstoneperformance.com...ost+Controller
like how can i roughly understand where its at and going? is one full twist equal kinda to something? should i twist it fully down to the negative to zero, then start back up from there, etc?
i dont even know where its at now...ill ask the guys at the shop who are setting it up for me. cause even when i heard the blow off valve, my boost gauge never registered much boost, if any. i feel i was at 0 alot or -10, but still heard the blow off valve? i dunno.... there good so theyll be able to point it out if theres a problem. well get this hunk o junk running soon enough heh.
Thanks for explaining that the reason it could have a check engine light is because of what you listed.
I know tuning is the right way to go but if i just want this car to run at even 75% efficency or lifespan turbosetup wise id rather go the cheaper older easier route with just an fmu, etc
also thanks for saying to stay below 200hp with stock internals and tranny. and not telling me this is retarded and impossible and to just blow my car up now or switch to manual. yeah 195 horsepower is plenty if i can get that much.
the racing harness is totally unnecessary just like the racing seats, or for that matter the roll bar or the body kit. its all ricer **** that i don't mind being on there enough to remove it. the seats are insanely comfortable and the seatbelts arent that bad annoyancewise. Yes there is a proper roll bar and i inspected it layman style and it seems well installed and secure and the belts seem threaded as they should be according to racing foundation safety site documentation.
so do you think if i find out there is NO fuel/air or tuning management completed that my best route as far as my mind seems set is to definitely at least throw an fmu in there? what ratio? 12:1 for this kinda situation and application? and the better fuel pump, i was gonna get that. i could have them install it during my next appointment when they put in my new turbo manifold, new oil feed line, and new downpipe. or do you think i could save the money and the stock pump will be sufficient for sub 10psi boost?
How do i see what the boost is set at roughly? how do i adjust it? my boost controller looks like this:
installed in my car: http://www.flickr.com/photos/98integ...7632005322896/
on ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/UNIVERSAL-BL...70c135&vxp=mtr
for anyone having problems installing these or getting them to work, they are a knock off of this treadstone turbosmart product from what i have seen and others have had success using their instructions and guidelines to install the ebay version:
http://www.treadstoneperformance.com...ost+Controller
like how can i roughly understand where its at and going? is one full twist equal kinda to something? should i twist it fully down to the negative to zero, then start back up from there, etc?
i dont even know where its at now...ill ask the guys at the shop who are setting it up for me. cause even when i heard the blow off valve, my boost gauge never registered much boost, if any. i feel i was at 0 alot or -10, but still heard the blow off valve? i dunno.... there good so theyll be able to point it out if theres a problem. well get this hunk o junk running soon enough heh.
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