namely, how the crap do you get the nuts off?!!! there is absolutely no room in that engine bay to get anything in. and on top of that its not a straight shot down with a socket!

any ideas?

 

https://honda-tech.com/forums/honda-accord-1990-2002-2/egr-port-cleaning-without-using-carb-cleaner-2559172/

 

well thats an interesting way.

off course i was able to get the back one off with little to no problems. the front one however, weeeeeeeeeeeell, i've stripped the ever living hell out of it in the process. i know i know i shoulda stopped before it got too bad. its just the top of the nut thats stripped. the bottom is still good...because the socket didn't go all the way down!

looks like its time to break out the dremel and be done with it!

thoughts?

 

You can't use sockets on the egr valve nuts. You gotta use either a box wrench or an offset box wrench. The key is to make sure that you got the wrench flush on the nuts or they will strip.

In a worst case scenario, if you plan on replacing the valve anyhow, then you can get something(like a pry bar or something of the sort) to simply bend back the valve back enough to get a socket on it. Then push down as hard as you can so it doesn't strip and get them off. Make sure you spray some penetrating lubricant(beforehand) on the area between the nut and the intake manifold while having something like a towel on the top of the nut so that you don't get any lubricant on the part of the of nut that you plan on turning, obviously.

 

thanks holmes. i more then likely will just take the dremel and either cut the nut, or cut part of the old egr to get a socket straight down on. of course i'll be more careful putting the new one in

as far as the nut goes, since i'll be 1 short due to it being stripped or cut, can i just use a regular nut and washer or do i need to try and find the exact nut thing that was on there?

 

i've done egr in and out a bunch of times with a regular extension and a short socket, with no problem what so ever. if you do it with a deep socket its going to be on bad angles from the egr lip.

i once found an egr nut prrtty bad from previous owner but i was able to remove it by taking the air intake out for some space and drilling a self-tapper hex screw to one of the flat spots on the nut, gotta make sure you dont go too deep and fckup th

i still got the nut with the hole, in case somebody wants to see.

 

i used one from the throttle body, always got spares.

 

i'll try and take a pic of how bad i dorked mine up and see what people think. like i said since im gonna replace it anyway i don't really care if i F up the old one. im just gonna be down a nut and didn't know if i needed to just go to lowes and buy one or not.

is wd40 still the penetrating lube of choice these days?!

 

well at least the honda dealership has the flange for a whopping .25 so im gonna cut that son beach off

 

wd40 isn't penetrating oil. Just get some PB from Walmart in the automotive section.

 

thanks holmes. me and my neighbor were finally able to get it off without taking the fuel rail off.

we didn't get around to putting the new one back on last night but is there anything else i need to do to as far as cleaning? is there any build up down in the ports that will need to be cleaned?

 

Just for reference, a 12mm wobble (flexible) socket will let you snug onto that nut and then twist from and odd angle and apply strong torque and a grip that won't slip at the same time. As best I recall, I used a short extension on my socket handle along the socket and loosened it right up. Of course that was after struggling with is and stripping it a little it. When I did mine, I bought the wobble (flexible) socket from Sears. I went ahead and bought 8,10,12 and 14mm at the same time. All have come in handy on the Accord.

 

ok i was able to get it back on and took it for a test drive. numerous times if almost died on me from a stop. wouldn't get higher then about 1500 from a stop and felt like i was tied to the road.

here's the pic of the inside of the port. does it need to be cleaned? if so, how?

 

Yeah, you've got to clean that out, but first clean up the EGR ports on the EGR rail by drilling and pulling the plugs that seal them off. That link somebody put in the second post tells the story. Also here's a couple of links that should get you going.

Once you get the plugs out, you can use some bailing wire to loosening the accumulated soot and vacuum it up. Then, use fuel injection cleaner or brake cleaner to soften the remainder up as you poke with the wire. The wire is rigid by flexible, too, so you can force it along the pathways of the rail to really looses the soot.. The idea is to created an unplugged up condition so the spray can get to all parts of that rail and the passages that go to the combustion chamber. Get as much of the soot out as possible, but what's left will burn off when the engine is running again, especially if it is soaked with the f.i. or brake cleaner. The engine will run a little rough while that stuff is being burned on up.

To get free access to those plugs, you're looking at taking off the IACV and Fast Idle Valve and a couple of other things. On your design, it's not necessary to take the fuel injector out. It's been a couple of years, but I think I was able to remove the IACV, FITV and simply use some wire to hold them out of the way (with all the hoses still on them) while I worked.

Unless you're familiar with it or are just super comfortable under the hood, this EGR job is one that you want to study before jumping in to. If you need your car every day, make sure you have all the tools and parts needed to get it done in one session. By the way, those plugs look very intimidating, but they are easy to remove with the slide hammer with the screw set solidly into them. I used the Honda replacements shown in some of the links.

http://home.comcast.net/~em-engineering/T2T013.pdf

This guy breaks the process down very well. Follow his steps and your engine will still run after you're done.

 

I also just want to mention that if your Honda by some chance still has the original or a very old O2 sensor (Oxygen sensor) on it, that can cause some driveability problems (bucking and bogging down) and it might not place a code in the computer so the CEL points you to the O2 sensor. That's how mine went. No code. Honda just started falling on it's face while driving. Thought it was a ignition miss, but it was really the car choking due to the bad air fuel mix the bad o2 was causing.

 

hmmm. thanks brake.

i might try the o2 router before i start pulling and drilling things. im no mechanic so i'll stick with the small stuff first

 

No problem.. If you replace your Oxygen Sensor, get the Denso or NGK (preferably Denso) one. Don't get the Bosch one. The consensus amongst Accord owners is that the Bosch sensors don't work right. Last I checked, that Denso sensor was about $60, but it's probably higher by now.

 

is there just 1 o2 on the 90's?

 

Yeah, just one. Unless you have an EX it should be in the manifold under the hood right up front. If EX you have to get under the car and its in the pipe after the manifold but before the Cat converter. Removing old o2 requires getting it hot first. Taking it out cold is at worst, almost impossible and inadvisable, at best. You need the right socket and preferably a breaker bar or socket handle that you can get lots of muscle with. A lot of auto parts stores will loaner you the tools to get it done. Remember to coat the threads of the new o2 with the anti seize stuff.

 

yeah i got an o2 socket that i've used on numerous cars i have. hope theres enough room to put it on and still get some torque behind it.

back to the egr port cleaning. is there an advisable way to clean just the 2 opening ports that you see in the above pics?

 

Only by using the procedure to pull the port plugs with the slide hammer, etc. If you get the IACV out of the way, which bolts on right there above those ports, you can get a clear shot at those ports. On second though, the guy in that video showed how to make a little rig that might save you the slide hammer step, but I don't know if I'd trust it. If you can keep from drilling all the way through those plugs, you might be able to reuse them. They must make a good seal again, though. Considering the miles on the car, all of those ports are probably low-flow or completely plugged up with carbon deposits (soot). I did mine at about 175,000 and they had about 10%-20% flow left. That first one was completely clogged.

 

If your Accord is doing the poor running right out of the driveway with engine basically cold, then EGR is probably not the problem. You've probably looked at plug wires and basic stuff, but what about the throttle body? It might be caked up with carbon stuff similar to the EGR ports. Poor, sputtering running would be a sure sign.

There's a number of hoses and things (mostly hoses) that you have to remove to get a look into it. You just have to pay attention to where everything is so you it back together right. It's where the big black duct thing that comes from the air filter housing connects to. It's a high mileage car, so while you're in that area, you might want to check for vacuum leaks. If you spray some throttle body stuff around in that area and a leak it present, it will suck the chemical mist into the throttle body and cause the idle to surge a little as it gets burned.

Short of taking all that apart to get a look up in there to clean it, you might try some Seafoam in a full tank of gas, or, a full tank of 92 octane, preferably Ethanol free, and a little spirited driving. As for the O2 sensor and cold driving, even it likes to get good and warmed up before its even involved in the air/fuel ratio thing. Replacing an old dilapidated O2 sensor, however, is a good idea, anyway.

Been recovering from wisdom teeth surgery past couple of days and had some time to pop in here, but this will probably be my last post for a few days. Good luck with getting your Accord running like its supposed to. Because it's a Honda, the solution is going to be something simple.

Also look up threads on removing and cleaning the Idle Air Control Valve if you haven't already done it. That thing sticking or not being up to snuff, can cause running problems right off the bat, but the clue is irregular idle. If your car is idling fine, then its probably not IACV.

 

Bad_dude did a semi write up on this. He has a '90 as well. It might be best to go to the junkyard and get a 91-93 intake manifold. Pulling the plugs on those is easier than drilling and pulling the plugs on the 90. I did a semi write up on how to pull mine.

It's actually best to pull the intake manifold and just completely clean it all out, but that requires getting a new intake manifold gasket and having to scrape out the old gasket which isn't easy to say the least. If you're gonna leave the intake manifold on there, just be sure to put something in the way so the stuff you blow out of the manifold doesn't get into the head.

 

nah i won't go that far just yet! im not gonna go broke putting money in this thing

 

use the vaccum onit size heater hose down to vaccum hose to fit ports cut hole in one of the tubes as carb put finger over and release and cover again for more suction