like the title says how stiff of coilovers or how big of a sway bar and stiff/rigid of a suspension do you need before a strut bar becomes necessary.

i just think it would take a crazy amout of force to flex those strut towers and chassis.

 

never

they are pretty much all for show, anybody that says that they feel a difference is just subconsciously trying to justify to them selves spending a couple hundred dollars on a metal bar that's shinny

 

They really aren't necessary at all.

I have one, pretty much bought it becuase it was new and the guy wanted half what they go for.

 

depends on the car, how old it is, and where it's going to mount.

 

mine came with an integrated brake master cylinder brace. felt more of a difference with that than the actual bar.

 

The idea behind them is to stop chassis flex. The idea behind preventing chassis flex is to maintain the desired suspension geometry to provide predictable handling.

Think about how much old, or even new rubber bushings deflect under load. Now think about how much travel street suspension has in order to not knock your teeth out. Think about how much those two affect the suspension geomtry as it moves. How often is it going to be 'optimum'?

Now, think about how much the chassis deflects under load. How much of a difference is removing .01" of flex going to make to the suspension geometry compared to the other two?

Strut bars only beome necessary when the rest of your suspension is so stiff that the chassis becomes the biggest source of undamped flex. By this point you are running a serious race car and have a proper cage.

 

It depends on the chassis and where the bar mounts to. Some cars will flex the shock towers away from the firewall under braking - and it's more than .01".

 

10 thou is nothing to be worried about. Start laying the hood over the fender and you might want to start bracing things up.

My humble opinion:

Will you feel a difference? Perhaps. I've used a couple of different bars over the years, a front upper bar definitely makes the car seem more solid. Rear upper bar has the same effect at the back. It's a completely qualittative change though.

Will there be any actual increase in cornering performance? Most likely not. Period.

There is a lot to be said for the tactile feel of driving a car, not unlike the fact that having a nice small steering wheel might make the car handle better to you, even though there isn't any reason why it couldn't be driven just as well with the stock wheel. Do whatever works for you.

 

Disagree. This Benen that I have now definitely stiffened things up. Those BS 2-point bars, like the one I had on the Prelude, didn't do squat.

 

so performance no but changing the feel of the car wile driving weather good or bad yes.



so theres a noticable differance between the 2 points and the ones that go to the firewall?


either way after reading this ill probably never get one i havent found a sight that justifies spending 200+ on a good one anyway.

 

Yep. The 2 points do nothing.

My Neuspeed bar is good. (4 point) and I did notice a litte diference. Front end feels a little more solid.

Is it worth it? no, not really. But I got mine cheap, so F it.

IMO, I do like the PWJDM bars. Not too expensive either.

 

Only thing that bothers me about the 3 point bars is that a mild frame tweak can turn into a crumpled firewall real quick in a collision

 

Don't the three points bolt to a flimsy bit of metal with tiny bolts?

Wouldn't really expect it to add anything other than weight.

 

I agree. I noticed a little difference with my Neuspeed. Got it for a great deal too. And it's shiiiiny

 

They do bolt to the firewall and the bolts aren't very big.

I've drove my friend's Integra with a Carbing bar and there was a diference, but it's not a huge or night and day difernece by anymeans.

Honestly I think the biggest diference came from the BMC brace. i haven't driven it with the brace, but he said he felt a diferecne.

 

I personally think that making the chassis more rigid can never be a bad thing...

Will one bar on it's own really change anything, doubtfull.

But when you have say all four bars, front/rear upper/lower, combined with upgrading the suspension as well as all your suspension bushings. There is gonna be a major synergy bonus. IMO.

 

So Honda wasted time and money by putting these into some of their cars from the factory? They do nothing??

Was the ITR done wrong?

 

This is another case of people commenting with no practical experience.

 

co-signed and worth a second look.

most of the "mush" you feel in the brake pedal is due to the firewall distorting. you don't even have to measure it.. you can see it.

well.. in a collision you'll likely have bigger fish to fry lol. though you are correct, anyone who's had the wiper cowl off a honda can appreciate what you're saying. that portion of the firewall is not structural in any way.. just something for the wiper cowl's fasteners to snap into.

yes, they are more-or-less there as bling on a type r because you can't actually stand in a showroom and show the additional structural bracing of the unibody unless you have a sawzall and no intent of ever applying to be a car salesperson again.

it's flimsy steel ends are it's bracing downfall.. they'll easily flex if one side is trying to go up and the other down. and laterally.. well you can't stiffen much with two m6 studs.

lol BUT TYPE R DOE?!

it's why ebay retailers are paying their bills every month.

i think most people imagine the frames of these cars are too flimsy. if that were the case, under hard cornering or violent bumps, we'd be breaking headlights and crumpling fenders.

 

WOW, the misinformation in this thread is sickening. Yes, the cheap ones don't help, OEM and quality aftermarket strut braces DO work. The GSR, TL-S, CL-S don't have "bling" they are flat black. If they did NOTHING Honda would not have used them.

 

lol, what work do they do on your racing car?

do they eliminate chassis flex so your precision dampers and 1200lb/in springs can really make those r compounds bite into the precision-laid asphalt on turn three? lol don't get offended. i'm just saying on a street car. it's crap. no doubt it'll deliever some feel which may inspire some confidence, but it's not going to shave three-tenths of a second off your lap time.

 

I took the OEM front brace off of my EK4, it made no difference to how it drove. If I had spent money fitting one though, I would have made sure it made a difference.

 

I think there is a slight misunderstanding when differentiating between which bars can make a noticeable difference and which ones won't. The multipiece hinged ones that you see are absolutely worthless. The solid ones (think Integra/Civic factory pieces)are slightly noticeable, and the three point ones (Benen, Carbing, and such) are the most noticeable. None of it, in my opinion, will increase performance. It does change the feel of the car, and that can be desirable or valuable for some people.

Start looking around at older Honda race cars. You'll likely see more without than you see with.

Honda is in the business of selling cars. If bolting a $4 piece of steel tube across the towers helps them convince the general public that the car performs better, bet you me they'll put it on there. I know I would.

 

When you look at the 3rd mounting point of a 3pt strut bar it becomes aware that it does absolutely nothing. If I can flex that part with my hands, it sure is hell isn't doing anything to help something with a rather rigid chassis that is flexing. A 2pt bar is all you need with no hinge points, just one solid piece.

 

You'll never convince ME of that. Especially since I had mine off for a while and felt a marked difference in the stiffness of the chassis. I don't know what this increase in performance is supposed to be that everyone is talking about.

And could we can it with the race car vs. non-racecar comparisons please? They don't prove anything. Apples and oranges.