I have searched the archives, and I have an unanswered question.

What would you guys think of the B&M Honda stick with the OEM type bend? I work for the company, and we are prototyping one with a bend for '03. This seems to be the most technical Honda site on the net, so we would really value your opinions.

I have spoken with the lead engineer, and we talked about the following:

1. rattle from heat shield
2. rattle from shifter touching larger diameter pipe
3. harmonic noise from louder exhaust systems (N1 for example)
4. bushings

My next reply will have that discussion summarized. I seek all feedback, positive or negative. Its my job to learn what the consumer wants, and attempt to address the concerns.

Thanks in advance,
Mike

 

Ok, here is what I have taken away from the discussion with the lead engineer.

1. We build the shifter to fit the CRX, Civic, Sol and Integra, so there has to be some looser tolerances. Now, with stockish exhaust it should fit all of those cars just fine.

2. Enter the heat shield. In the instructions, it should state heatshield mods may be necessary. 85% of guys I have talked with via email and PM have ditched them altogether. Others haven’t, and either cut, or banged out the shield to get a little extra clearance. Between those three methods, I think almost all consumers solve the heat shield issues. We are not done yet...

3. Enter bigger exhaust. This poses a problem, since when engineering the shifter we can/did not compensate for all exhaust sizes. It poses a big engineering challenge when this shifter fits 4 different cars. Unfortunately, this is something we can not re-design, since it may cause other issues across the 4 models. Now, I have a solution that should work well. You really do not need much more clearance, so you can either bend the metal hangers a tad or go find rubber exhaust hangers that will give you a little more space. This should take care of any lame rattles, since there will be no more contact with the exhaust pipe.

4. Bushing time. When adding a performance shifter, you will almost always bring more noise into the car. Replacing the bushings with an ES kit will help, but still, I do not think it will be OEM quiet. Personally, I’m willing to deal with a little bit of noise, especially if I took care of the blatant rattles described in #2 and #3. We are considering adding new bushings (3 pieces like Neuspeed) in later months. This will raise costs of course, but it should still keep us well under Neuspeed. Now, the noise that the N1 owners have been hearing, is unfortunately impossible to stop. The 'tuning fork' analogy loosley works, and the harmonics that certain exhaust make are sometimes amplified by the shifter. A fully dampened shifter would stop that, but that is cost prohibitive and really not an option. Fortunately, it seems like there are very very few cases where the exhaust causes such an issue.

5. OEM bend. We just fit a prototype to a B18 swap car yesterday. This is well underway, and will be hitting the streets sooner than we think. Again, this will fit the CRX, Civic, Teg and Sol, so we will have to find a happy medium that works for all cars. Believe me, you guys will like it

6. Feedback needed. Would you guys be willing to pay an extra, say, ~$15 if it includes the ES type bushings? My guess is yes. That price is *not* confirmed, but that should be an accurate guesstimate. Your answer to this question is very important at this state in product enhnacement, so I await and encourage all responses.

Thanks guys,
Mike

 

YES.

I want the bend.

I've got one of the normal B&M units in my 92 Civic Si right now, and while great, because it sits farther forwards, it kinda screwed with my seating position.

I'm short, so it made 3rd and 5th a little harder to get into and out of.

The bend would have been nice.

Probably. IIRC, when I checked out the cost of the B&M shift stabilizer kit, it was almost as much as the shifter itself cost (about $50), and the ES bushings cost me...about $15.

So, if you can get the cost down like that, it'd definitely be worth it to not have to buy the ES ones separately.

Thirdly, I've had one other problem with my shifter. My stock **** fits on the threads fine. I've recently stuck an SRR silicone **** on there, and that was fine too. But, they both have one thing in common...soft plastic threads, or in the case of the SRR ****, it's just a blob of stiff silicone. The shifter cuts the threads the first time it goes in.

But, a friend of mine gave me a stock aluminum S2000 ****, where the threads are actually cut into the metal of the ****, and it wouldn't fit. It goes about two or three turns, and then locks up.

It's on my girlfriends 92 Integra at the moment...fits there fine, and I tried on my old stock Honda shifter, and it fit there too.

But, it leads me to believe that your thread cuts aren't quite at the same spec as Honda. You may want to check that out.

Otherwise, I was very happy with the product.

 

yea a B&M with the stock bend would really be nice...my 2-3 and 4-5 shift is hard to do when strapped in with a harness. You guys have a good product and very good price... to B&M

 

my b&M shifter rattled against the heat sheild, so i removed the sheild.

 

make all of them with the gsr bend in them its easier to reach all the gears.

if your short you cant reach the gears like 3rd and 5th and if your tall your seat is far back and cant reach 5th that good if it had the gsr bend you wouldnt have to reach as far to reach those gears.

right now 9 haver a gsr lever in my civic after i modded the bottom of it to fit the shift linkage it works great but when i had the stock civic shifter in it i had a hard time because im tall and my seat has to be all the way back because of my long legs and 5th was a bitch until i put the gsr shift lever in

 

Yes, mine did that two years ago. Was a good product back then.

Just wasn't able to stand the rattles.
However, alot of other companies went with the "OEM type bend". That was a downfall between the B&M's and everyone eles's.
I'm not sure if a new redesign will have an impact since the product you have is the same for the past years. Since many people thoughts tent to stick to the "B&M rattle short-shifter"

Alot of American aftermarket company such Skunk2 and JG/Edreblock with OEM type bend.

However, this is just my opnion.

-bert

 

I didn't suffer from rattles initially (I pulled the heat shield long ago), but I have a rattle I need to track down at the moment.

My 0.02. I'd have preferred an OEM bend as I initially found the **** position to be forward of where I was used to. I'm now fine with it, but it would have been nice to have a seemless position transition.

I cut about 1/2 to 3/4" off the top of the threads on mine to make it stubbier. I like it even better, and would like to cut MORE off. However, there aren't too many threads left, so I'd have to get it machined or something. Increasing the length of shifter that has a thread would be beneficial.

I used ES bushings with my shifter. I'd be willing to pay $15 extra for a set that came with the kit.

Is there anyway to replace those 2 little bolts that you have to use visegrips on to get any leverage (not a part of the shift kit, just a personal gripe about the Honda system)???

Steve

 

To solve the rattling issues, why not just take some of the leverage out of the shifter? Or make the ball adjustable.

 

Only 5 posts per 24hours...that sucks. Thanks for the replies!

mojo: After talking to the 'powers that be' I think the idea of having the bushings in the kit is a pipe dream. Guys like Vibrant are killing the market with their cheap shifter, and we have to try to compete as best as possible, while keeping the same quality. Does the S2k **** fit on the stock Honda stick? This is interesting info, I await your reply.

TK: Thanks!

Bert: I know, and thats why we are trying to change things around. Bending the levers wont affect pricing, and we are still selling a ton of these shifters. As we go on, we try to improve everything. There are so many other factors that make changes difficult to implement, but we are doing our best.

Thanks again,
Mike



[Modified by MkIIMike, 3:10 PM 10/18/2002]

 

my $.02...
I would like to see a shifter with shorter throws, but that retains the stock height (perhaps even higher). When I have driven cars with short shifters, the lever is to low, and causes my right shoulder to be lower than my right, also increaseing the steering wheel to shifter distance.
I realise this doesn't directly relate to the posters requested feedback, sorry.


[Modified by joseph h, 11:47 PM 10/17/2002]

 

I'll put in my thoughts..

I never had any rattling problems at all, until I put my exhaust on... but that was related to heatshield/exhaust contact problems, not the shifter, so I have no issue there. I just ripped the heatshield off.

A bend would be nice, after installing the shifter the **** position was much further forward so I had to move my seat up a little since I have kind of short arms I guess.

I'll second the mention of different threads from the stock to the B&M shifter... I purchased an aluminum **** and found as well that I had to re-drill and re-thread it to make it work. The thread pattern seems to be similar, but the size is just a tad larger than the OEM threads, which makes anything that's not plastic or silicone not fit.

I also like the idea of including the ES bushings, although you say that probably won't happen. I installed mine with the replacement bushings from the beginning, so I can't really comment on what the shifter is like without them, but I'm really happy with my setup, and the price was excellent.

 

my **** worked well on both shifters

 

That's understandable. Some people just don't want to pay for quality.

And yeah, the S2k **** fit on my stock shifter. The guy that gave me the **** gave it to me the same day he helped me put the shifter in.

When it didn't fit, the first thing we did was screw it down on my old shifter.

 

i dont understand what your asking, but i like the design of the original b&m cept they dont have an integ/double bend kind, making it harder to reach the shifter, giving me back pains. and the aluminum/billet "bushings" that b&m offers are better IMO, but the cost too dam much

 

cman: Interesting. I havent heard this one before, so I really cant offer a solution But it is something that will be discussed at the next meeting.

joseph: I totally agree with you, but unfortunately 90% of consumerns want it ti *look* shorter as well. Hell, many guys are happy with just a shortened lever.

matt: Thanks for the thread feedback. 2 guys so far have said this, and honestly is new news to us. I will look into this.