Honda Civic / Del Sol (1992 - 2000) EG/EH/EJ/EK/EM1 Discussion

92 Del Sol - Non Starter - has spark and pump primes

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Old Aug 15, 2012 | 04:49 AM
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Default 92 Del Sol - Non Starter - has spark and pump primes

New to this sort of thing, so apologies if my 'post' is not quite right

Car - 1992 Del Sol 1.6 (engine D16Z6) Auto
Has been stood for a year, but battery recharged and fired on 1st attempt. 300 trouble free miles until last week

Problem - Started fine, after a mile and on a roundabout, loss of power, engine light comes on but car continues to run. Pull over & stop car, car wont re start. Cranks and tries to fire but wont start. Engine light now extinguishes after 2 seconds of turning key.

What I know - 1/2 tank of new fuel, can hear fuel pump prime and stop after 2 seconds. Cranks in N and P wont crank in any other posn.

What I've done - Checked spark plugs (very sooty on removal, now cleaned) on all 4 leads and have a spark on cranking.
Disconected inlet of fuel filter and fuel comes out on 2nd key posn. (have changed fuel filter)

Having read about the fault codes on this forum, unfortunately, I had already disconnected the battery to recharge in order to continue cranking so no flashing engine light to help me.

In summery, car was driving (albeit with engine light on) car now cranks, i've got fuel, i've got sparks, and it sort of tries to fire when key held in 3 posn, but dies when returns to 2. Armed with a multi meter and a socket set, my thanks in advance for what is clearly just another non starting del sol for you guys, but i'm at a complete loss so welcome any advice given
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Old Aug 15, 2012 | 06:50 AM
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Default Re: 92 Del Sol Non Starter - Please Help

Is spark bright white?

Have you checked the mechanical timing?
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Old Aug 15, 2012 | 10:08 AM
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Default Re: 92 Del Sol - Non Starter - has spark and pump primes

x2 on mechanical timing.

Are your injectors ejecting fuel while you're cranking?
------------------
-You can test to see if your injectors are getting power:
-un-clip each of your four injector clips
-turn the ignition to on
-take your multi meter, set it on DC volts, put one probe on the YEL/BLK wire in the injector clip, and the other probe on a body ground.
-you should see battery voltage (0-14dcv I believe)

My next method isn't the safest, but it really confirms a bunch of possibities regarding your ecu, main relay, wiring.

Try pulling your fuel rail with injectors still attached and putting them facing down into a plastic bag, then try cranking it over and record how much fuel is being dispensed. *be sure to unplug both of your distributor plugs before you crank the engine.
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Old Aug 16, 2012 | 11:25 AM
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Default Re: 92 Del Sol - Non Starter - has spark and pump primes

Progress update
Answers to your suggestions

Sparks appear to be yellow/orange
Mechanical timing checked and appears ok
Pulled off injectors and had 12.28v across all 4 with ignition on
Pulled off injector rail, injectors into bag etc - no fuel coming out of injectors on cranking, just injectors trying to blow themselves off the rail.

My thanks in advance for letting me know whatever the next step is
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Old Aug 16, 2012 | 12:43 PM
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Default Re: 92 Del Sol - Non Starter - has spark and pump primes

Originally Posted by asletclark

Sparks appear to be yellow/orange


Pulled off injector rail, injectors into bag etc - no fuel coming out of injectors on cranking, just injectors trying to blow themselves off the rail.
These^ are problems and probably separate.

Do all four plugs have weak spark? If so, test the coil - see spark link in my signature and diagram in the FAQs sticky.

Will the engine start with starting fluid?

In the injector test, if you ground the ground wire of one injector, does it spray fuel?
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Old Aug 17, 2012 | 11:41 AM
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Default Re: 92 Del Sol - Non Starter - has spark and pump primes

Ronj@ht
Many thanks for your continued and valued advice
An update for your consideration
On grounding out the ground wire i am getting fuel out of the injectors - guessing this is a good thing but await your comment
Went to check the coil, on removal of the dizzy cap it became clear the dizzy is not in the best of health. There was red dust everywhere (I read elsewhere on the hondatech forum that this probably indicates a shot bearing) furthermore the rotor doesn't want to come off without a battle - so removed the whole dizzy to continue in vain off the car. on inspection the dizzy isn't rotating freely and so i'm in the process of getting another.

As the rotor remains arc welded to the dizzy i have yet to confirm if the coil is ok, nor have I managed to proove if the car runs with starting fluid.

Once the new dizzy has been fitted (it may take a few days) will this post still be active and will you/others be still able to continue to assist?

Best regards David
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Old Aug 19, 2012 | 05:12 AM
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Default Re: 92 Del Sol - Non Starter - has spark and pump primes

Might be moisture corrosion on the ECU board. Common with del sols because they leak and get a lot of moisture corrosion in the passenger footwell. Borrow a ECU just to try.
It's a simple check.
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Old Aug 19, 2012 | 07:02 AM
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Default Re: 92 Del Sol - Non Starter - has spark and pump primes

Your thread will remain open.

Definitely replace the entire distributor and go from there. There is a possibility that the failure of the injectors to pulse fuel is caused by the bad distributor because the ECU uses the signal from the distributor CKP sensor to determine injector timing.
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Old Aug 19, 2012 | 05:17 PM
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Default Re: 92 Del Sol - Non Starter - has spark and pump primes

Originally Posted by RonJ@HT
There is a possibility that the failure of the injectors to pulse fuel is caused by the bad distributor because the ECU uses the signal from the distributor CKP sensor to determine injector timing.
good info..

I had a similar problem with my civic a week ago. I think my problem was there was corrosion inside the "A" plug that connects up to the ecu.
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Old Aug 19, 2012 | 05:21 PM
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Default Re: 92 Del Sol - Non Starter - has spark and pump primes

Originally Posted by asletclark
Pulled off injector rail, injectors into bag etc - no fuel coming out of injectors on cranking, just injectors trying to blow themselves off the rail.
Ron -Could there be a chance that the fuel pressure regulator is going bad and not letting the fuel pressure pass through the rail causing the injectors not to pulse?? A friend said that could be a possibility?
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Old Aug 21, 2012 | 08:43 AM
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Default Re: 92 Del Sol - Non Starter - has spark and pump primes

I have a 93 del sol si auto, had the same problem and chased it for almost 2 years. It turned out to be it needed another ECU.
ECU is P28-A51 for the auto model.
Got it for $135 at a junkyard.

I went thru ground wires, fuel pump, main relay, ignition switch, distributor, fuel pump relay, etc.
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Old Sep 1, 2012 | 11:56 AM
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Default Re: 92 Del Sol - Non Starter - has spark and pump primes

All - got a second hand dizzy off ebay and she fired up on first attempt. A small victory lap around the garden and now a thank you email to all on this forum.

Special thanks to ronj@ht for navigating me through this.
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Old Sep 1, 2012 | 12:00 PM
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Default Re: 92 Del Sol - Non Starter - has spark and pump primes

just to be clear - it was i who did the victory lap, not the del sol

so happy - thanks again
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Old Sep 1, 2012 | 07:07 PM
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Default Re: 92 Del Sol - Non Starter - has spark and pump primes

Glad to hear you got everything figured out! I know it's a great relief when she finally fires up after sitting. Have you been able to narrow down what the problem was exactly? There is a lot going on inside the distributor.
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Old Sep 2, 2012 | 04:48 AM
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Default Re: 92 Del Sol - Non Starter - has spark and pump primes

Spoke too soon!!
Fired up ok but after a minute or so engine light came up. Code 9 - cylinder posn sensor. Followed guide on this web site, pulled 9 pin connector and checked terminals - 400 ohms. Next step looks to be swapping ecu.
Yesterdays short lived celebration is now todays frustration
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Old Sep 2, 2012 | 04:59 AM
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Default Re: 92 Del Sol - Non Starter - has spark and pump primes

Ohm test CYP sensor from the ECU plug and also short test each wire there.
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Old Sep 5, 2012 | 04:21 AM
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Default Re: 92 Del Sol - Non Starter - has spark and pump primes

Ron - open cct between pins 11 and 12 CYP on connector B of the ECU harness
No short on any wire

Week 3 of no del sol and a frowning other half - im on dodgy ground.
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