Ok, the question is should i turbo my d15b7 or swap/swap and turbo.
before i get lots of flames i am not asking how much boost i can run on e3b16g or do i need to upgrade this part or that part. i am not new to turbos (i have had a few DSMs fwd and awd). my situation has led me to lose my last gsx and sr20det powered 240sx (divorce) and get a 95 civic dx coupe. i have had the car over a year now and feel it is time make power. not stupid unrealistic goals, but a modest 200whp or so (should make a light little civic quick). whatever road i itake i plan on rebuilding the bottom end (not really possible to go forged with the d15b7 as my research is telling me) and head. just looking to make it quicker ... but h/i/e and only gaining like 10 hp if i'm lucky doesn't sound to appealling, lol. mini me seems like a waste too. i know hondas can be quick (i have actually lost to a couple of them, nice turbo civic with b18 swap and a civic hatch n/a with b16 and loads of internal work). i am looking for opinions and advice. budget is not set yet but i want to build it right the first time. again though, just looking to make a nice clean quick daily driver that will turn a few heads.

 

would you like to keep AC and power steering? If not, the least expensive and most reliable power for the $ might be a h22 swap?

If you want to go FI, a b16 or b18 with a small turbo would be alot of fun and you would not need to build the bottom end to exceed your power goals.

 

For the money it would take to swap to a b series, you could have a nasty Dseries.. 200 whp could be had fairly easily with a lot less money than swapping to a B series IMO. If youre not after crazy goals (which you do seem realistic about) a D series fits the bill just fine.

Im kind of in the same boat. Im not new to turbo's but New to Honda's and after the research I have been doing, Im going to build my D15b7 as well. Most likely supercharging it, but FI none the less.

 

i ran mid 13's on a stock d15b7 on a half assed street tune. beat the **** out of it on a daily basis, blew it driving it when it was 0-5* outside in the middle of winter still running the summer tune...

setup cost less than a grand and it was fun as hell...if you go this route find a small turbo. i ran a gt1752 and it spooled like a supercharger i was at 14psi by 3k it would rip the tires off untill top of third if i wanted them too.

setup was

-d16a6 cam with aem cam gear at 2* ret.
-a6 valve springs
-z6 intake mani
-b7 trans(z6 trans would have been alot faster would have got me low low 13's)
-arp headstuds
-motor was a stock rebuild with about 50k on it and about 200passes on the 1/4 already
-ebay stage 3 clutch
-gt17
-hf mani and adapter plate
-janky *** 2" to 2.25 downpipe to 2.25" strait exhaust
- 2" intercooler piping, fmic and blitz bov

best was a 13.9 @82mph fouling 2 plugs between the 1/8th and the 1000' marker....trapped a consistant 103-104

 

well i kinda plan on keeping the ac, my car came with a manual steering rack so i already live without power steering. i plan on using like a small 2g dsm t25 or something if i keep the d15b7. like i said i am going to rebuild whatever i get anyway. swapping is a bit harder as i no longer have the tools i used to have (i was a nissan tech for a while ...). like i said, 200whp is what i am really looking to achieve. i see a lot of post with people running d15 turbo set ups and a lot of people saying to just swap. i really like the thought of a turbo d15 though, with like an ex or si tranny

 

If you feel you will get boost happy then swap. If not you can just turbo the single cam.

 

Build that d15 high comp pistons stage 2 cams valves& retainers your good

 

not boost happy here, i ilke boost but i know better than to "turn up the boost". i think i will turbo the d15. it's different and i am already sort of familar with the engine. thanks for all the opinions

 

well, it seems that nothing is going as planned for my turbo d15b7 build ... instead, for now, i have ordered an eibach pro kit (to get rid of my horrindus? e-gay coilovers. i have almost new shocks and struts, koni something or another), a pass. mirror to replace my broken one, and an upper rear strut mount since i noticed one of my bolts is stripped. i have looking for some quality parts for the d15 but am finding nothing. not crower quality but more like eagle quality but still nothing for a half way decent rebuild. i have decided to fix up my suspension first (this car will be a DD so full coilover isn't really an option. i think koni/eibach will do good for a while till i can afford tien or something, plus sway bars and the like. gonna get some light weight 15s soon and quality 2.25", or maybe 2.5", cat back piping for now. i really like the thought of a boosted civic though. i am starting to think a d16z6 would be a NICE choice with an Ex/Si tranny, but N/A B-series power sounds good too. i don't really care about vtec even though it would be nice. my question is now what do all of you fine people think is a better option. i know what engines cost and all and budget is still not set in stone. my power goals are still the same, close to 200whp (little over little under is ok). i recently read about a j35a4 swap in crx ... don't those things make like 240ish hp and cost MUCH less than a b series. i am not afraid of work or fabricating ... just the best option for my power goal. i am still planning getting another DSM or SR powered 240sx in the near future (like a year or so ... and i am a DSMer at heart, had many of them since the late 90s)

 

GoAutoworks recently released rod/piston combos for the b2/b7. Might want to give them a call. The block can handle around 400 whp safely and their combo can handle 600 whp. Arp's and a trip to the machine shop and you're set. D's will always be cheaper to build for boost than B's. N/A is a differnt story.

 

goautoworks you say ... i will have to give them a call. in all honesty i bet my engine could handle the boost now, cept i have a leaky crank seal . that's part of the reason i want to rebuild. i really like my car (better handling than a DSM ... not so sure about the 240 but it's very close). i plan to keep her as a DD for many years and maybe pass it on to my son when come of age.

 

Try to find you a healthy d16z6. Throw in some arp headstuds and a small turbo. It'll be a fun lil setup. theres a lot more aftermarket support. In my area a z6 can be had for pretty cheap. That or wait and scoop up an Ls/b20 swap. I see them go for a grand or less sometimes. I would look at the z6 over rebuilding the b7.

 

Save your money through away that single cam and put in a b series. B series are cheap and you can beat the hell out of it without worry. I made 200whp with a b16 on a 50 shot like 8 years ago. I think it cost me back then a total of like $1500

 

nah bro. Bseries arent cheap anymore. Good luck finding a reliable b16 for under 800 for a motor itself. I turboed my d15b and made a little over 200hp and 156 tq with a garrett t3 super 60. I straight blew doors off of bseries in my 95 civic ex, ran it for 3 years and then sold the setup to go bigger. Fun as hell.

 

If you're DDing it then you definitely want it to be reliable. You could safely boost 5psi for years on it but why go through all the trouble of boosting if you're only going to make around 180-200? Build the bottom end for it and shoot for 250-300. You will still get great mileage with the right setup and a good tuner.

D series will always be cheaper to build for boost. If you're going N/A though, then you're just wasting your time with a B, go K.

 

What does this even mean? 5PSI on what? This is another one of those empty statements people like to throw out there thinking they are being helpful.

BTW. 200hp on a Civic is pretty quick by any standard.

 

In my opinion, once you open up the bottom end and replace with aftermarket pistons and rods. . etc, the reliability kind of went out the door. Plus you are spending some good $$$ there.

Spend around 1500 and bam 200hp on tap all the time and reliable. I did not have not one single problem. Not one. Drove this thing everywhere whenever I wanted. Just make sure its tuned on a dyno and has arp headstuds.

 

I don't have time to list all the pro's and con's right now, but all you need to know is the D15 is perfectly fine. 200-220whp is perfectly fine on a stock bottom end with STOCK rev limit. It is all in the tune. 200+whp in a B-series with a 81mm or so bore is not going to be cheap or reliable. Just boost the stock engine after a stock rebuild and enjoy it for many years to come. I am not an advocate for D-series by any means; don't let these "B" verus "D" children sway you the wrong way. People get rid of D15's quite often and a ZC can usually be picked up from an importer for around $300. Also, if you choose to tune yourself NON-VTEC is PERFECT for a beginner. If you need more details and explinations just ask.

PS - If you want reliable parts, stay away from eBay.

 

You must have been building them wrong to be unreliable. Even my brother's Piston/rod B-series had been done 10 years ago.. still kickin' at 11.8:1

 

well goauto.com or what ever has great customer service and all, replying back at like 6am on a sunday morning (pistons but no rods)... my biggest problem right now is that this is my only car ... d15 turbo is what i REALLY want to do with "ideally" 200ish whp, but i can/will settle for less. as i stated before i am a DSMer at heart (NO disrespect to the Honda or Honda lovers at all) and i do plan on getting another DSM in the future (awd and high HP goals) or tracking down my 240 and getting it back. but my EG is going to be my fun DD with a bit a "pep" to it. power right now isn't bad for what it is. the only serious problem is a leaking crank seal. my main corncen with boosting is i know of NO tuning shops near me. i can think of one like 120 miles away where i used to live but i have no idea if they are still open and can't even remember their name.i live about 40 miles north of Abilene, TX. getting close to my power goal would satisify me and i am not "boost happy" my turno of chioce would probably be a td05-14b or dsm t25 as i am familiar with these .... i rthink a 16g of any sort would be to much for a stock engine.

 

exactly ... 200hp on a light weight Civic is very good "street" speed. if anyone know of anyplace in or around the Abilene area selling D15b7s or D16z6s let me know cause i am having no luck finding them. i want to build/rebuild an engine with turbo ... then request a few days off work to swap since this is my only vehicle at the moment. my search for a beater 4x4 cherokee or s-10 blazer isn't going well . otherwise i would just pull my engine out. also i here arp rod bolts are more important than arp head studs since most d15 turbo problems come from the rod bolts stretching ???i may just look for a d16 anyways since i can find all the needed/wanted forged internals just incase i want to more power later on (which i doubt i will though)

 

i am not a "beginner" tuner but i am not that good either. i know the basics of using an SAFC and SAFC II and DSMlink, lol .... but i probably lack the skills to "tune" a boosted civic.

... sorry for all the typos, my awesome logitech wireless mouse and keyboard took a dump on me so i am using some cheap ONN stuff until i can find something i like.

 

Sorry, but SAFC just isnt tuning. It was "acceptable" more than 10 years ago as that is all there was. There are many "write-ups" and "how-to's" on how to tune with even Crome. I could be wrong but with the latest update you can even tune DSMs? Regardless, for around $200 (assuming you have a laptop) and at least a wideband O2 you can learn yourself. Tuning a stock engine with a small turbo and low boost is pretty easy. You have to be willing to take the time to read and learn. You sound like you are just making excuses to not be turbo. This WILL be the cheaper and easier route, but it looks like a swap is more up your alley.

No matter which crank seal is leaking, it shouldn't take more than 6 hours (even for a first timer) to replace. If your current engine tests out both leak-down and compression, and doesnt *burn* oil, you should be good to go. I have tuned DSMs myself, and I can tell you MAF's do the work for you. The better part about the Honda platform is you won't be working on it every weekend. Which makes me start to remember my RX7 days, haha.

Also, a turbo should be chosen for the engine platform/goals and NOT because you are "familiar" with it. D-series rods can't handle RPMs or whp levels of much more than 220 and wtq levels of around 190? Again, I am not a D-series person, but I tend to know a little about a lot. Comes with age. Just go with the stock D15 and call it a day. Anything else is a waste of time and money for your goals.

 

This is the kind of honesty i like to hear ... i personally think swapping is a waste for my goals too. i know SAFC isn't tuning, i was just using it as an example of what i know and had like 10+ years ago ... my last gsx had DSMlink and i had help from an "ASE certified Master Technician" friend (as he ALWAYS said ... and realy is ... and is a former DSMer turned Supra/MR2 guy). I am not making excuses not to do anything. as i stated this is my only car right now and if i screw something up then i am screwed. i read everywhere while searching that i need to get some sort of engine management with a base map and baby the car to a tuner (that is what searching gets me). turbo choice also comes from the fact that these aren't mad power turbos either and can be found cheap (at least i can find them cheap knowing LOTS of DSMers) the DSM t25 generall maxes out about than 250ish hp much more boost than 10 psi and they break, i think that is engine/platform related. 14bs can be monsters with "built" engines but are usually good for 275-300hp with bolt ons at higher boost levels. plus the 14b is a reliable turbo in my experience ... and cheaper than a garret.

my car doesn't "burn" oil at all really, haven't done a leak-down test, but compression was like 110 across (95 on one cylinder). the leak is real bad either ... just leaves it wet looking. (crank seak by the tranny)

that said, i apprieciate your honesty and remember working on my dsm every weekend too, lol.

 

Turbo all the way that motor will need it