Ok Im new here although Ive been lurking for a little while reading as much as possible to learn about these cars and engines. I am NEW to Hondas and forced induction all at the same time. I previously have had V8 mustangs(foxbodies) and my most recent hotrod was a 01 silverado with a 6.0L swap and bolt ons. Ok now to the Honda stuff...

I bought a 97 Civic Coupe with a 97 GSR B18C1 engine and tranny installed. Stock motor with the following engine mods:
-Full MSD ignition
-Megan racing catback. I believe thats all motor wise.
-Walboro 255


Me and the previous owner just installed a CXRacing turbo kit that he had already purchased for the car before i bought it. The kit has a 60 trim turbo. I researched and found that 450 DSM injectors would be sufficient for up to about 300whp. I planned to run 7-10psi so thats what I went with. We installed the 10 ohm 10 watt radioshack resistors and they work great so far. Aside from using the OBD2 clips which dont snap even after much snipping and cutting..Im gonna swap to the DSM clips very soon.

For Management im running a P28 I actually ordered from a guy on ebay who builds them to order. diymiketuning I believe. I told him i was using 440cc injectors because I thought i had some that were gonna work before i got the 450 dsms. SO the ECU thinks it has 440ccs but the car has 450 DSMs. Will this be a major problem? RICH? We havent put a wideband on it yet but it seems to be running slightly rich but overall seems healthy. Plan to dynotune soon.

OBD2 to OBD1 jumper harness to run the P28

Stock MAP sensor

Now, the uber cheap screw in type boost controller that came with the kit is junk, i know its junk, ive read bla bla bla. WE COULD NOT GET IT TO CONTROL BOOST AT ALL...So we simply ran it off the wastgate today and finally was able to control the boost. Previously it would go 8 psi and I was like "ok"..then if i held it would climb 10-12-15!!!! No matter if i screwed it in or out or in between...NO BUENO...No real question here, im just gonna run it off the wastegate and it should not boost past 8 lbs.

One question i have is the car doesnt have a testpipe. It still has the cat after the downpipe. IS THIS A PROBLEM? Will it hurt anything? No smog here in south ga..actually i think the law in Ga is "if it isnt smoking or leaking it isnt allowed on our roads"

Also a question i have is the blow off valve setting. Do you want it "soft" or "hard"? I thought i pretty much understand how it worked but Even if its set soft wont it hold the boost until you let off the throttle right? or no? is soft vs hard noisier or quieter? IDK where do i want it...you tell me.

Anyhow, other mods on the car are:
Coilovers, '00 Si front clip, Si tailights, Si Cluster, Gold with polished lip Drag wheels, Currently flat black paint. and some other stuff.


anyhow, sorry for the scattered "questions" and info. Im sure I could put it together a little easier to follow. Any help is greatly appreciated.
Thanks - Dave

 

uhhh hmmm,
i dont know much about injector size for hp goal, but those injectors should be ok but i wonder what percentage they would be running at to obtain that goal. im not going to bash on your turbo kit, someone else will do it, but have you had the turbine balanced? i think the problem is with these cheap kits, is that the turbo isnt balanced at all. a unbalanced turbo can create all kinds of problems. your bov settings are just a sound settings from what i hear.

idk i just think 450 might be to small of injectors, maybe someone else can chime in.

 

Your injectors shouldn't be a prob. 300whp is pushing them near their limit, so any more and you'll need to upgrade. (Might I recommend RC750's. Nice and cheap. Or... if money isn't an issue ID1000 injectors are the shiz. Your tuner will love you.)

Ditch the cat.. especially if its stock. Uncork that sucker!

For boost control... look into this guy.
http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewi...d=230772345472

And if you ever intend to boost over one bar (14.5psi), get a GM 3 bar map sensor or similar.

You're on the right track my friend. READ til you can't any more.

 

450cc's should be fine.

You WILL be running rich - this couples with the fact that a 255lph pump causes your fuel pressure to increase. This will increase the fuel being dumped.

If your tune is NOT correct, i.e. running rich, you will burn the cat out. If you don't have emissions it's best to remove the cat as the factory one is just a restriction.

The BOV should be set properly regardless. Drive under load and right when you come out of vacuum let off the gas. Your BOV should open and there should be little to no compressor surge - preferably NONE. This is of course if the BOV even has an adjusment screw.

Have fun replacing the eBay parts as they fail.

 

dont listen to these people. I am running a bunch of cx racing stuff. the turbo IS balanced. and i have had no problems.

 

every single thing you have stated is false, the turbo is computer balanced, and the blow off valve is adjustable, NOT FOR SOUND.

honda tech misinformation.

 

^^ Ok so your turbo hasn't fallen apart yet..

OP... I'd still suggest starting a turbo fund. Beat the hell out of what you got, with full confidence that it will need replacing sooooon.

Above all else, you need to get it TUNED asap. Spirited driving on a base map is not smart.

 

i can understand my limited knowledge on the BOV

but i know the cxracing turbo isnt balance, hence why they are cheap in price.

i really dont want to get into its balanced and its not balanced feud. we can continue in a new topic or pm

no need to hi jack the thread

and everything i said isnt false btw

 

not every setup requires 1000s and ID injectors arent all that awesome...
and anything over 11psi will need a new map sensor since the stock one won't read above that

Federal law states all road going taxed vehicles must have a catalytic converter... thats a given but no one listens and local/state law enforcement agencies dont enforce it... you don't have emissions in south GA because you are outside of the metro area.. I live in the metro area so I have emissions here.

and yes the car will run rich because the injectors are larger than what the ecu is programmed for so you'll need a re-tune regardless... dont go around beating on it with just a basemap

 

cxracing turbos are balanced. one of my friends that competes in Fromula Drift is sponsored by CXracing and was on the same turbo for over 2 seasons without issue. I've held them examined them... they are balanced

 

WOW, I was kinda expecting this... LOTS of different opinions and views...

Ok try to make heads or tails of this..

I didnt nor do I want to start a "EBAY kits are junk/good thread"...I believe your uber cheap "ebay kit" and a CXRacing kit are alike and cheap i understand, but i think CX is a slightly more reputable CHEAP kit to Start with and upgrade from there. Not everyone can go out to a $2000+ kit and bolt on the best from the jump. Yes im sure the same chinese kids make these parts in the same factory but on THAT note, me and a friend installed a EBAY Twin turbo kit on his foxbody with a blowthru carb setup and it has really made some power. The car has been running 6.40s at 106 in the 1/8th. been running the Same Ebay turbos, piping, intercooler, BOV etc for a few years now.

Considering the RPM that a turbine spins, If it werent symetrically computer balanced when designed I dont think it would last 10 minutes much less 2-3 years like they do for ALOT of people. What kills these cheap turbos is squeezing every psi of boost you can out of them on a regular basis, running them hard, AND not allowing it to cool after running the car before shutoff. Turbo timer is your friend. id say they are cheap because they arent ball bearing turbos, they are bushing or whatever. THATS a big difference for turbo life and price...

Also,As for running on the basemap, i am not beating on it much. As difficult as it is for a boost noob since its pretty much like CRACK...I do understand it isnt really safe and I will put a wideband on it within days to see how far im off.

From everything ive read the 450s with this turbo and 10 lbs max boost (currently 8 lbs on the spring) should be sufficient and my buddy asked his tuner and he suggested theyd work. From what i understand you cant just throw 1000cc injectors in any car because they will always be enough down the road. They are huge and will just throw gobs of fuel into the motor even if its not demanding it (wrong? idk) You have to use whats good for your setup NOW. I actually have some RC1000s sitting in my buddys shop but that will be after a sleeved block, ramhorn, GT35 and pretty much every other turbo kit part replaced except tubing lol. IF i decide to go that route. Not really planning to build a really powerful car here. i know its very possible and these things can really get down but I just wanted to make the car a little funner but i have to keep it dependable until I get a new daily later and we'll see where it goes.

As for emissions, i plan to move to the "City" (savannah) within a few years so ill have to get it legal then..im sure thatll be fun..not

So, setting the BOV, if I have surge when letting off right out of vacuum with that harm the turbo? Doesnt it put pressure on the turbine or something?Im almost positive that ive notice that there is almost no surge until it builds positive boost and i let out. Ill check and try to adjust accordingly.

thanks for the help guys and Ill keep on the learning curve. Ill post some pics and whatnot soon

 

or can i just set the BOV Soft where I can rev it underhood (not under load) and when i let out of the throttle the valve opens and I can feel the air coming out? My concern is that too softr wont hold the boost or something. i dunno

 

I gave you everything you want to know, take itor leave it. If you want to listen to the children banter instead, be my guest. 1000cc injectors are good for about 3/4's of the builds out there but are by no means a blanket that covers all. 2000's would be a better blanket statement for D and B series Hondas.

You are 100% incorrect in thinking that because you have larger injectors you will be dumping more fuel. I also wouldn't be suprised if you are hitting insane EGT's and HIGH A/F numbers from not being tuned. Even a 60 trim is nothing to mess around with and not being tuned. No car should be modified period unless it's going to be tuned for it.

Compressor surge is never good, but in some instances the conditions will be there for it.

A wideband is only part of the puzzle. Detonation can be more than happening even with perfect AFRs... You have more than your fair share to learn.

 

450s are big enough so the injector size talk is for the future... so Im wrong that the large injector would dump too much fuel but im saying everything im reading was saying 450 dsms. My buddy runs rc1000s in his built motor GT35 hatch with 20+lbs boost. 550whp. He bought that car and didnt build it himself so the knowledge isnt there otherwise id learn from him.

I know that running off a basemap isnt "safe". Its a ballpark and every build is different and needs to be tuned in for that build I know that. I figure adding a wideband to measure afr and make sure its not hella lean or hella rich will get me by until the tune. I know this isnt the right way but I was thinking as long as my timing is stock, afr isnt crazy, the ecu is tuned for 440s and everything else, i could get by for a while and a fine tune would make it spot on and squeeze some more power.

and ima be honest, considering detonation, I dont know what to do with that other than hope and not run it hard until i put her on the dyno for a fine tune. The ecu was tuned for my car having its timing set stock. no FOR SURE that it was at stock or not. it was previously retarded for a 30 shot of gas by the previous owner. How should I set the timing to stock with the MSD dizzy? Loosen the bolts and rotate to the right(advance?) or in the middle? Its currently dead set in the middle of the slot where it bolts. I know this isnt the CORRECT way but wouldnt the center be 0 degree? as in not retarded or advanced.

I did not come on here to get flamed. I appreciate the info and the help i was in no way trying to shrug off or question your answerrs. i was simply further asking how the BOV worked. shhhheeez

 

How can you say that?!? I love my ID's!

True, I'm not utilizing but maybe HALF the duty cycle, but it's nice knowing the potential for more fuel is there.

AND.. that I'm not excessively pushing any given component within my fuel system is comforting.

 

Just because the distributor is in the center does NOT mean the timing is in the ball park. This would be like saying that because you pointed the vacuum advance on a V8 at the valve cover it's correct. The timing eeds to be set to 16.5* BTDC... The 3 marks on the crankshaft pulley are 18, 16, and 14*... you shoot for the middle one. This is all extremely basic stuff here and is out of the realm of this forum. You need to start learning about engines in general before you start to tinker. Also, don't start with "well on domestics I..."; Most of us aren't strictly Honda, like myself, and have some great cars in multiple platforms.

Good luck kid.

 

all ID injectors are just Bosch EV14s.... I have like 2 sets of those laying around off the ls7. I can get a set of 8 95lb EV14 injectors for less than 300 new on ebay lol.


the basemap will run your car until the tune... but dont expect it to do so efficiently. Its just a stop gap until a tuner can see you. That doesn't mean you can go drive around and beat the **** out of it...

and centering the distributor really doesnt mean dick. you need to get a timing light and physically check timing and adjust the distributor accordingly

I agree with N3va3vaSatisfi3d don't give us that "well on other cars" crap.... the good bulk of us here dont build just hondas.. or own just hondas. I have domestics, I have japanese cars, I have german cars, etc... I've built almost any car you can think of. Our 600rwhp c6 z06 is probably the most enjoyable though...
We all come from a vast and rich background of multi-car brand heritage.... and you'll quickly learn that most tricks and tips on domestics do not apply to honda's

 

I will check and adjust the timing asap. Thanks for the pointers.