On B18C, what would be the smallest turbo installation, manifold, turbo, etc in front of the engine?

I guess I'm asking which is the most compact turbo exhaust manifold. I have very limited space in front of the engine.

As you can imagine, the engine is not in a Honda product.
Thanks for you help.

 

The more information you give the better. There's no Cookie cutter for this, especially on unique platforms.

the more you give, the better, please. And welcome to H-T

 

Thanks for your kindness.

So this is a JDM B18C that is sitting in a 2000 Rover (Morris) Mini. It's a Honda conversion made by Mini-Tec out of Georgia. The car runs great. The downside is that the current steel front end will not allow any sort of reasonable access to the engine or suspension. So I'm driving down Thursday and picking up a one piece flip up fiberglass hood.

http://superfastminis.com/FLIPFRONTENDKIT.htm

While this should give me much more room....this car is SMALL and I mean SMALL. 1600 lbs. The exhaust is stock and exits forward as you would expect. There is no room to mount a turbo anywhere else in or behind the car. It has to go right in front. Therefore, while I love the rams horn manifold, that just takes up too much real estate.

It will be a mild boost turbo. So the smallest most efficient turbo available will be what I'm after. I have the intercooler location all worked out. The exhaust must exit the bottom, which means the turbo must be on the top.

I'm not looking for anything exotic because I don't want to open the engine. This is mostly for my entertainment so I don't want to get so complex I can't handle it. And....like everyone else, I don't really want to sacrifice reliability.

So, with all that in mind...I'm hoping to get good info and recommendations.

 

Well, I would say a log set up with an internally gated DSM turbo (16g or like) would be about as compact as it gets. I am running a Blox mani with Sc34 and just barely clear a full radiator with fans.

What EMS are you planning to utilize?

 

that is awesome man, im currently helping a friend restore a 66 wagon and ive been begging him to drop in a b18c but he wants it to stay all original. that front clip looks like an excellent idea too. as stated above a cast mani or maybe a tubular log would best for manifold and a small internally gated turbo is where u wanna be i would try and squeeze a gt28 turbo in there if u can. man that little suckers gonna fly lol.

 

at a second glance of those fibreglass front clips i think u will have plenty of room but u will most definately need to sacrifice the a/c and def no power steering.

 

the 16g takes too much room to integrate, even though the actual amount of airflow is small (turbine housing is just too large.)

Based upon the layout of the photos you sent.
I agree on a tubular log setup with a correct elbow going down towards the driver side a bit. Using a cast log may cause the elbow (if used) to be too tall for the external wastegate to fit. BUT, if you want internal wastegate to save even more room for the power that you're looking for, you can have a tubular log can be made to not have any external gate, and use either a smaller ball-bearing cartridge, or a journal bearing cartridge in a 5 bolt setup. No more than 50lbs/min for that Mini.

Also looks like the routing will not be too much of a problem since the intercooler can be kept under 22inches to work well (especially using a Garrett Core) and a small backdoor setup would work just fine. I remember a couple of guys with some Astin-mini turbos. With that small little wheel base, WOW!!

 

So what is the real disadvantage of one of the cast Iron log manifolds? Or are there log manifolds that aren't cast iron? Weight, certainly but off turbo I assume that it would be lower performance than stock.

I really like the idea of the internal wastegate. I'm really confused about my choices of turbos that are small, B/B (liquid cooled?).

I'd like to keep everything else stock, fuel injectors...electronics, etc.

Again, I'm looking for mild boost, 5psi, with minimal engine changes. Of course, small packaging is essential as there is no place to put it. The A/C must go altogether. I need the A/C pump location for the turbo and the condenser location for the intercooler and oil cooler.

Thinking as I go along...more experienced thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

 

Defenitlly going to need bigger injectors, even for mild boost applications.

 

The only way to keep the injectors stock is to use an FMU (that's really old school) and may not work that well with the fuel lines. The problem with it is that 1) Rising rate FMU units are hard to find to work properly 2) you'll max out your injectors in no time, to a point where you could cause damage, and 3) there's no way to tune the car.

Never go by a boost pressure level to determine what's going to work. Big no-no. If you want 250whp, say you want for example, 250-300whp. Don't go by XXPsi. , as that won't help. A power level is what's going to help for the best and most compact setup you need.

Cast long manifolds mainly do not come in a way that is internally gated for a T25 GT BB setup that would match well for what you need. Those are basically GReddy and HKS. Even for some T3 turbochargers that are small enough to give most of the power needs you want, its better to get a tubular log made that doesn't have an external gate portal so that you can keep the engine bay compact, and still be able to make usable power and optimal fitment for the downpipe. This way there's no dumptube to recirculate and you can keep the setup simple and easy to install and uninstall.

 

Well, as you have discovered, I'm certainly not an expert in this. This is a learning experience. Larger injectors, while I've never needed to change one, don't appear to be brain surgery.

What is brain surgery to me is assembling the correct parts that are compatible with each other and fit in the available space and won't grenade the engine or make it run like proverbial $hit.

Mild boost, maximum reliability and runs better than when I started.

Thanks again...

 

Well, I still think that at least the manifold and downpipe can be purchased from a couple good sources, and the changes needed to them are rather slight. I would honestly have a custom downpipe made, but the computer tuning setup should be like any other honda considering you're using some sort of Honda ECU and wiring harness. that will make things a lot easier.

Now you just need to have a budget to spend on a turbocharger (by that I mean an actual number, and not a general description like "not ebay, but good quality, and at the same time not break the bank".. that description is too general.

You also need to know the power level. that's even more important. what's the gross weight of the car? that will help too.

 

^ he said 1600lbs not sure how exact that is

 

Thanks for the heads up.. I'm well aware.. Back to topic
We were typing at the same time. I'm not going to re-edit a post just to say "oh, I see now".

Now that there is gross weight used, a power-to-weight ratio is going to be needed. I would think about 9-to-1 is about a motor cycle. so about 250whp-300whp would do the trick and still keep the block in good form.

 

The car does in fact weigh 1660 lbs. The JDM 1.8 type-R has nothing special to it aside from a cold air intake required to fit. It also has the chip programmed. something under 220 hp I would guess.

To get anything more significant, without a turbocharger, would require just incredible amounts of money and talent. A Turbo, while it certainly needs to be put on and tuned correctly, my uneducated guess hopes I could add another 75 hp at around 5psi, without jeopardizing reliability and breaking the bank.

I have the car and engine as described and I believe I have a reasonable budget for a turbo system that is solid but basic and reliable...at least I hope it would be reliable; including a decent oil cooler and likely a few more items I hadn't considered.

The thought of blowing a turbo, not a devastating scenario but throwing a rod through the block....that would be bad, very bad.

 

this wont happen at your power level of 250 to 300, worst case scenario u would crack a ringland which is also unlikely with a good tune. i would look into a go autoworks tubular log manifold, t25 flanged and a gt28, this will be a nice compact setup that will make u smile like hell in 1660 pound car. and because all the 240 guys have t25 gt28s should be easy to find. there is the option of shaving a bit off the block to make things fit too but this is usually only needed for larger housings with cast manifolds. and there is always the option of having it all custom made from a reputable fabricator.

my vote is for go autoworks tubular log and t25 gt28 turbo, custom downpipe and some dsm 450cc injectors.

btw if your motor is a 94-95 obd1 motor it should have an oem oil cooler, may have been removed but worth checking out.

 

TheShodan: Thanks for your reply. You sound like you know exactly the kind of power I'm looking for.

I live in SW Ohio about 10 miles from where they started doing the "Ohio Mile", not to mention all the autocross events.

They turned a 10,000 foot runway into a timed mile....sounds like a great time. http://www.ecta-lsr.com/
Not exactly what my car was made for but anything is good news!

Anyway....I need a CYA if things go haywire; meaning help with the turbo installation...mostly the electronics I imagine may be a problem. If required, I guess the Hondata S300 would be the choice and I know I can't make that work.

Any nominations for Honda turbo geniuses in the Midwest?

 

Me?

 

Oh, be careful what you wish for....I may show up in your driveway with a noisy tiny car and a lot of parts...

 

I just thought of that..

But I'll at least point you in the right direction of where to go and what to get, since you're in OH. You have some good options.

 

That would be great! I really need an expert source that I can rely on to get me pointed in the right direction, perhaps sell me some of what I and I can go crying to after it doesn't work.

 

A log manifold with T25 would be small and tucked away.

You can even trim the webbing to get it REALLY tight

 

Another option might be a Jackson Supercharger. Quick eyeball of the vtec mini engine bays seems to have the room. Might be a simpler solution since there's less piping to worry about.

 

The JRSC (Jackson) is no longer in production, and parts availability is more difficult than ever. This option has gone by the wayside about 3-4 years ago.

 

T25 flanged system yes. Not the T25 turbocharger itself.