I just recently dropped a gsr into my 94 VX. I am about to start updating the suspension and brakes next. Then I am going to start piecing everything together over the next year for FI. I am picking up a extra block to sleeve and build this weekend. I was originally planning my build of a gsr sleeved 84mm and built with a GT3582r with the hopes of pushing 500 hp. I was wanting to take to the drag strip on the weekends for fun. Well the track that was somewhat local was recently shut down and I am rethinking my game plan. I have always wanted to try autocross/road racing but I know traction will be a huge issue with 500+. I am thinking somewhere between 300-400 would be a good place to be and still be competitive. I know for 300-400 sleeving isn't necessary but cheap isn't part of my vocabulary. Reliability is my biggest goal and the reason for sleeving.

I want to see what kind of number people are pushing and the tire setup to get an idea of where I should set some realistic goals. Any knowledge I can gather here is greatly appreciated!!!

 

If you are building a car with the idea of tracking it, I think you are over doing it.
High HP will only teach you bad habits.. ( why do i feel like this has been covered already??)
If you have no track experience you shouldnt be building a superfast car with that much HP.
If it's your reason for being competitive you are totally wrong.
HP doesnt translate to being fast.
Fast is the driver behind the wheel , not the car he is driving.
I have seen many many fast drivers whip a sooped up car with a bone stock one.

(im sure this has been covered)

 

i'd run the VX engine and put all the cash into the suspension and seat time... learn to drive it as a slow car... while you build an engine...

that way you won't have the habits, and will know how to drive... maybe...

 

i am currently turning my SFWD drag EG back to an autocross/track day car. my current build was designed to be dual purpose with the hopes of drag racing the car a couple times a year in the 10.50 or 11.50 index classes in my area. if you want a turbo car then go with something that has a wide power range. i think a gt28r or gt30r would be your best bet. that way you can make some good high hp for drag and just turn it down for rest of the time. the last time i autox'd my EG i had a 60-1 turbo on 6psi making around 250whp. it was a blast to drive, but there were guys that could beat me in a stock civic (not that i really cared because i was having fun). do what makes you happy. my current build made 500whp with a borg warner s200sx turbo (similar to a 30r). by no means will that power be used when turning is required. i have 4psi wastegate springs in the gates right now so that i can turn it down to say 250ish. i'll still get beat by cars with less power, but i'm not going to make a career out of racing so i'm just gonna have fun with my car.

i guess i should answer the original question. i'd say my 250whp setup was a good setup that would have been better with more seat time. that said i started autoxing with a 91 prelude (145ish bhp) then got my EG with a GSR and bolt ons (160ish whp). race this season with the GSR and whatever suspension you have right now. talk to instructors/other drivers and make upgrades based on your experience and their input. not sure if my rant helps. good luck with the car!

-Drew

 

K20a3 h2 trim hp cap 165. Plenty fast to get u in trouble. I can't imagine anybody with a 300-400 hp without dropping like $15000 in suspension to put the power down

 

I guess I should have given a little history about myself. I start racing dirt bikes when I was 7. I started karting at about 12. Its been a while since I have raced competitively. With my career and marriage and a wonderful son, it has been about six years. My whole family is into racing so it's in the blood. My 13 yr old cousin races cart for andretti racing up around Atlanta. I have more family that drag races professionally. Don't know if anyone has heard of Cheeseman racing...

I am aware a skilled driver can do more with less. I was just wanting to get an idea of what kind of power people are running. I was thing about going with a gt30. I am planning to order a kit from go autoworks here soon and since I am considering not building a car for the 1320. I just wanted to get the opinions of those with a little more experience in auto-x.

Currently the car is on skunk2 sleeves and tokico illumina's. My gsr has every bolt on possible. I am in the process of or replacing a bushings with ES and trying to get to my rear disc swap


Thanks dbang, your rant has helped. You have me thing about a dual purpose build.
Cynical- the vx is in the process of being parted out

 

in autox, with a high hp front wheel drive car.... eh.... 275 max. unless you decide to stick some 275 wide hoosiers in the front then maybe 300

 

Sorry for the choppy sentences at the end. Damn iPhone won't let me fix it.

I am going to try to get a few events under my belt with the cars current condition and go from there. I am sure I will be itching for more power but I know my suspension and brakes are where I need to start

 

lol dirty19 i mean it was only ask like a week or 2 ago. b18b em1 turbo already covered all of this and then some.

 

There are some great build threads on here to show you some of the challenges and issues you will face with a FI RR FWD Honda. Mrlegoman, cluelesmale, and myself have lots of info in our build threads. Remember hp isn't what makes you the fastest around the track, It needs to be the whole package...

 

I am by no means smart for what I am doing, I do a lot of trail and error, mostly error.

But

Problem one, two, three, four, ... is heat, heat, heat.

If all racing was in 30 degree F weather this would not be a huge issue, but 80-90 with intercooler, rad, oil cooler, turbo = heat soak and melting

 

I keep reading this, but what are the bad habits that youre talking about? I dont understand how learning how to drive a stock civic will make you a better driver then driving something modded. Can you explain?

 

Meh if you are just doing HPDE, I would not put the money in power mods. Safety gear and suspension/tires/brakes first would be my priority. I consistently see SOHC civics and 100 hp miatas pass cars with three times the power. You don't need big power to have fun and when it comes to track cars, simplicity is underrated. The more you go and eff around with stuff and the more power you make, the more things break. Just go out there and have fun.

 

I get the concept that you can't just throw money into the car to be faster than the next guy, if you don't know how to drive. But what I'm asking is why it's better to learn in a stock car vs. a modded car. For instance I have a 11 sec AM civic. Would this make it harder for me to learn how to drive vs. a civic with a stock D16?

 

250-300whp is pushing the upper limits of fwd, especially with stock suspension.
Im running 218whp with a tuned suspension, its scary sometimes.

As said above you may be faster with less power...no joke.

 

the theory behind it is that the more stock a car is the harder it is to get faster in because of body roll and no power. so if you can get smooth and learn lines enough to get fast in it then when you do mods then it will only help more. thats how i understand it

 

From my experience (not driving but working numerous NASA RR/HPDE events) and driving AutoX, FI is hard to keep reliable on the track. Autocross is easier due to short runs.

Now im not saying its impossible, its obvious guys here have worked out their kinks, but there aren't alot of prepped FI track cars regardless of make/model, unless they are high end (996 turbos) or shop sponsored.

Heat is going to be your enemy, cooling/ducting will be your biggest friend. At the same time. I came from a Eclipse GSX (never tracked it), but even on the street with the FMIC, keeping it cool in 90degree temps was hard enough. My buddy's GSX (which was heavily tracked) finally got squared away, and after he totaled his receipts it was sold and he bought a E36 M3 as his dedicated track car.

I see ALOT of FI, heavily modded cars not make it through an entire weekend. Not due to driver error, but **** breaking even on the shop sponsored cars. Figure 2-3 seasons of figuring out how to make your FI car run reliably for RR/HPDE. At $350-400, it would suck breaking down after only 1-2 sessions into your weekend.

If it were me, I'd stick with the swap, figure out the suspension, throw in some safety equip. and then add power as you see fit. The simpler the better. I know a 400whp car sounds fun, my 125ish hp car is fun at an AutoX or on track. Which is why you see so many low HP cars, like Miatas and E30s at the track, cause no matter what your driving, getting on track is fun, but even better when you don't have to worry about fixing your car after a session.

 

Here's my take on it. Personal opinion. Slower cars give you more time to react. It's easier to get in trouble with a faster car. And when you are first learning, you will make mistakes. Those mistakes in a slower car are likely to be of smaller consequence than having that same mistake in a fast car.

And especially when you are talking about a boosted car (I have one also) it's very easy to get lazy with throttle control and understeer yourself off the track on turn exit. Maintaining neutral throttle in a boosted car is not as easy as N/A. In my evo, in the middle of turns if I am trying to maintain a certain speed and throttle position, the car just wants to build boost and go. Sometimes this causes fluttering of the BOV (MAF car) since the car doesn't know whether you are trying to accelerate or let off. This can cause the car to be unbalanced at the worst possible time (mid corner). And if you are not used to it and how to react to it, you can put yourself and your car at risk.