I drive a Integ TypeR and everytime I go to the track, my brakes get real mushy until I bleed them again. Here's my setup: removed ABS unit and using brake lines off an older LS. Stock ITR M/C and Calipers, and a master cylinder brace. But I don't have steel braided brake lines, and that's what my hunch is. Please let me know if steel braided lines will stop the problem, or any other input. Thanks in advance

 

(1) When you say "track", do you mean an HPDE on a road course?

(2) What type of brake pads are you using?

(3) What type of brake fluid are you using?

(4) Why did you remove the ABS?

-Andie

 

It's not the pads, since "mushiness" goes away after bleeding.
I'm using Super Blue fluid

 

The reason I am asking about the pads is because your pads may be generating excess heat, which would cause your fluid to boil. So, what kind of pads are you using, and what do you mean by "track" driving?

-Andie

 

WHY?????
The ITR brake system is excellent! All you really needed was pads, unless you're running the World Challenge. Put everything back the way it was, then get some good pads.

 

"track" as in roadcoarse like Willow Springs, not autocross(parking lot races)
I removed the ABS for weight and better feel on braking.

 

We still need to konw what pads you are running??

And I really dont understand why you removed the ABS. It does not wiegh that much and it is one of the best systems that I have ever used. Its very unobtrusive and only engages when you absolutely need it!! I'm still able to lock a wheel for a very short amount of time, and it lets you brake at the threshold very well. But to each his own.

Like Andie stated, the pads may be overheating and boiling the fluid, so it may be worthwhile to upgrade the pads.

 

i'm using EBC reds

 

I think we've found your problem...

 

 

That's funny... I heard they were pretty crappy the after I ordered them.

 

don't take offense to this but when you're asked a question just answer it. there is a lot of knoweldge on this board and your problem can be figured out very quickly if you just answer the questions you're asked. especially in this case since the first person to post to your issue is the person everyone on this board goes to for braking questions/advice/help.

 

My next questions: For Cobalt
What kind would you recommend for street/weekend track?
How benificial are the steel braided lines?

 

Drive:

EBC Reds do tend to "heat-soak" after extended use, which would occur on the track. They are certainly not my first choice of compounds for an ITR for weekend track use. While your choice in pad material may or may not be the cause of your fluid deterioration issues, it probably is contributing to some degree, due to the thermal dynamics of this compound. Also...driver technique may be a contributing factor here --> see below.

I will recommend that you do the following if you plan on continuing your weekend track hobby:

(1) remove your dust shields from behind the rotors to ensure more even cooling of the rotor - this will help prevent cracking and warping

(2) re-install your ABS, as the weight savings are negligible at the level of driving you are doing...I estimate you're gaining all of 1/2hp by removing the ABS; further, you will be much safer and have a wider margin for error under braking with your ABS in place, as well as save tires from being flat-spotted

(3) for weekend track use on the ITR, I will suggest that you a compound that is less aggressive than a full-on track/race compound, to start, especially if you are driving on street tires (which tires are you using, btw)?

(4) your choices for entry-level track pads starts with the Axxis Ultimate and Ferodo DS2500. the next level up will be a Carbotech Panther Plus. when you become more advanced, you can move up to a Ferodo DS3000 compound.*

*while the Axxis Ultimate and Ferodo DS2500 do not provide the very strong initial bite of a track/race compound, they are more than sufficient on street tires for a novice to intermediate level driver on-track, as they both have fade points of ~1000F

(5) for the time being, I would skip on the SS Braided Brake Lines - they will make your pedal feel somewhat firmer, but will not improve your braking performance, per se -- save your ~$120 for something else; that being said, I notice you have non-ITR specific factory lines...go back to your factory lines...as there _may_ be some difference in configuration, length, and diameter which could possibly affect reliability.

(6) for brake fluid, you are already using a good brake fluid (Ate Super Blue), and unless you continue to boil the fluid in conjunction with a "proper" track pad, don't bother upgrading to a higher-temp fluid (e.g. Motul RBF 600, AP Racing Super 600, Cobalt Super XRF)


Lastly, what is your driving experience? The reason I ask is, based on my 5 years of instructing experience, I have found that _all_ of my novice students, and even some intermediate students, tend to over-use the brakes, primarily due to feeling uncomfortable with carrying a high level of speed when approaching a turn/braking zone. Further, braking technique has a lot to do with how long your brake pads last, perform, etc. I have seen two idential cars with the same brake pads, but with two different drivers, have dramatically differing brake pad performance and longevity. The key to effective braking is to apply the brake pedal smoothly, but firmly, and finish your braking in the shortest period of time possible...don't worry about trailbraking at this point. Your release should be smooth as well, btw. I would recommend braking hard when you are still straight, downshifting, turning in and transitioning to the throttle, and tracking out. Ask your instructor for more detailed advice the next time you go to the a track event.

HTH... -Andie


[Modified by cobalt, 7:59 PM 10/10/2002]

 

You are the man! That is great advice!

 

Thanks for all the good info