i am working on a move from sts to dsp next season (96 integra rs), and the intake manifold seems to be the place to make more power. people have been suggesting i get an intake manifold with 4 independent throttle bodies. who makes these? is it really better performance than say the skunk2 manifold with a single 70mm throttle body?

i suppose somesort of ignition/ecu or standalone engine management system would be in order as well?

thanks for the help,
phil

 

http://www.twminduction.com makes a kit for your car. You would need a stand alone fuel/ignition system to go with this as well.

Figure $5000 to get one of these systems up and fully sorted.

 

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=300518

I have to assume you saw my post or else this is too much of a coincidence.

 

nope... big coincidence! i was just at a club meeting last night and started talking to people about the move to dsp and intake manifold/throttle body/engine managment came up.

but i do have a question for you. what kind of spring rates do you have to go along with the 235/45 13s? i was warned that running a tire that wide w/o semi-crazy rates could lead to a problem of the tire hitting the fenders. currently i have 350fr/250rr. i'm thinking of moving to 500fr/450rr, which is about the most the koni yellows (not to mention my rear end) can handle...

i'm thinking about just getting some of the 205/45 14 kumho victroracers to mount on my existing 14" wheels for next season, and use the money on the above mentioned items.

thanks,
phil

 

if you move to those spring rates you should be fine...but may I suggest only 450 on the front with off the shelf koni's...unless you plan on getting them revalved. I still can't see the benefit of running 13's. with 13's you make for a situation where you might have to shift to 3...shifting=losing time. i plan on running 15s next season b/c the change in rolling diameter for the sizes I run is only 0.1 inch. again this is all preference.

I plan on running the skunk2 manifold with a 68mm TB on my 94 Integra RS. my 5 grand will be spent on the suspension, but I would like to do the TWM stacks. talk about INSTANT throttle tip-in and response!

 

I run 560f/336r with the 235/45/13 tires. The tires stick out slightly farther then the fenders so if the car were to roll enough you could hit the tires with the fender. I have seen it happen. With the rates I'm running I only rub the rear fender now and then.

The ITB/Tech3 setup would be sweet but I can't imagine spending $5000+ on my car to add some horse power. In the post I mentioned above I'm working on a low dollar solution to get more hp.

 

yeah, $5k would buy a nice turbo setup which would make 100-150 hp, not the what 20??? the intake manifold/fuel system will.

i think for local racing, very little of this really needs to be done... at the national level when it's tenths of a second, then it could be done.

i'd like to hear how your setup goes. how are you doing it all for only $350? will the skunk2 intake manifold suffer the same low rpm loss that the ITR manifold does? can i just use a larger throttle body on my stock manifold? is the new s200 series from hondata a good reasonable engine management system?

thanks again,
phil

 

the 3rd gear issue was also a consideration... especially with the longish courses we get locally. so with the 450 fr, do i want 400rr?

i'd like to hear how you like the skunk2 intake manifold and how it affects low end power.

thanks,
phil

 

hondata=great! i plan on getting a stage 4! cheap "standalone"

 

phil-
about the spring rates.....(this is my preference) I like to have my rear spring rate higher, or at least equal to the front. so if you plan on 450 in the front, run 450 or 500 or even 550 in the rear. if you think about the handling dynamics of FWD...the rear wheels are just along for the ride. if they lose contact with the surface it isn't a big deal, and the higher rate in the rear usually helps with rotation

geratol-
do you like your spring rates? don't you get a good amount of push? are you running larger sway bars?

 

i thought you said 450 was the limit for stock konis?

given the weight distribution of the car, 450/400 makes the rear stiffer relative to the amount of weight it has to support. i'm also running a stiff rear sway bar (comptech adjustable to the stiffest setting) and can get the rear to move around, but i get a fair amount of understeer as well (too much roll, and apparantly i hit the bumpstops sometimes, but i didn't feel it, someone else did).

what do you think?

 

I haven't tried the SK2 manifold but two of my competitors tried it and didn't like the loss of low end and are considering switching back.

 

ITR TB- $150
GSR Intake Manifold- $50
P72 OBD2 ECU (new in the box)- $150

It took a while to find these prices on the parts but it is possible. Now I'm shoping around for someone to do the machine work.

The great thing about the GSR intake manifold and OBD2 ECU are that no one wants them so you can find them cheap and lots of them.


[Modified by Geratol, 11:31 AM 10/8/2002]

 

If I were you I would not even touch the engine from what you have for STS right now. I would concertrate on purchasing 13x8 (min width, 8.5 would be better) Wheels, Hoosier or Kuhmo tires, an LSD (huge difference), while you are in the trans you might as well put a Light flyweel and clutch in, and get your spring rates sorted. These items will give you the biggest gains in time to start with and then when you have the cars handling sorted, then think about adding power. The individual throtle bodies are not a must have that is one of the last things I would consider buying.

 

i was going to do a lsd and was thinking about the clutch/flywheel. at what point (in pounds) does the flywheel get too light, robbing low end power?

do you really think 13s will make a huge time difference over 14s? our local courses can get pretty long (close to the rev limiter in 2nd, and once at grissom, i hit third). my current 195/60 14 azenis give me a total diameter of 23.21"

moving to the 205/55 14 kumhos results in 22.88", while the 215/50 and 235/45 13s are 21.46" and 21.33", respectively. won't this force me into 3rd much more often? will the acceleration gain offset the shift time losses enough to justify the purchase of new wheels?

on the LSD, what do you think of the phantom grip? a couple people have mentioned that, at least for autox, it works very well and isn't so expensive. is the quaife really worth almost 3x the money?

thanks for your help,
phil

 

Lifetime qarrenty on the quaife, even under racing situations.

I had considered 14's before I bought my 13s and the biggest problem is that there aren't any good tire sizes in 14". The only way you can keep the overall diameter smaller is by going with a narrow 205 tire.

 

someone also mentioned a disadvantage of running the 235 width 13s being more difficult turn in... do you find this to be the case? do you have to work harder (steer more) to move the car through slaloms?

also, what kind of shocks are you running to support the 560 front rates? how long have you had the lensos with no trouble? being designed for drag racing, they don't have to engineer much lateral strength into them, right?

lastly, at which model year did they switch from OBDI to OBDII? what is the advantage of switching to that ecu without a hondata or some other system to tune it?

thanks again for all the help,
phil

 

since you already have a GSR, why do you need another stock GSR manifold? just so you can retain a stock one?

will a GSR manifold fit on a LS engine? will it help any?

 

I picked up a second intake manifold so that I can have it worked on and still get to work.

 

Phil-
Off the shelf Koni's CAN handle 500# springs, but I wouldn't put them on the front...you'd wear them out SUPER fast...although some people are getting away with 600# springs on OTC konis....me personally I will be getting a set of konis revalved and shortened 1 inch and will be running 500# front springs and 500-600# springs (have decided on the rear rate yet). now, if you are already bottoming out you definetly need to up the front spring rates. I'm also running a 1 inch front bar and 3/4 inch rear bar with revised geometry. Needless to say I have no problems getting my car to rotate. for the flywheel, if you're car is also going to be street driven (like mine) I'd go with the lightest chromoly unit you can find. I will be run a competch that is like 8 1/2 lbs. I'm gonna do some research real quick about tire sizes in 14's and i'll get back to you on that one

 

ok...kumho has 225/50 in 14...that would be ideal on a 7 or 7.5 inch rim. hoosier has the same, but they are expen$ive. you could pinch that size on a 6 or 6.5 inch rim...but you'll lose some of the responsiveness. ideally you would want to run the same sizes tires f/r, but with a 7.5 inch rim in front and 6.5 inch rim in the back. that would give you a nice square shoulder for good turn in on the front and a more round shoulder in the rear that would help to control lift throttle oversteer and snap oversteer. unfortunately most of us can't afford to do a stagger like that. that would be my ideal set-up.

 

block off the coolant flow to the IM/TB


[Modified by Tweakmeister, 5:36 PM 10/8/2002]

 

the wheels i have are most likely 14x6, maybe 14x6.5... i don't know, that's what came with the car when i bought it used. for what it's worth, the current 195/60 azenis seem a bit wider than the wheel...

so moving to a 14x7 or 14x7.5 doesn't really help me save any money

if i buy new wheels, i think i'd either go 13 and have the acceleration gain, or just get 15s.

 

you could always just buy 2 14x7's for the front!!