Suspension & Brakes Theory, alignment, spring rates....

Letting the car down 1/2" change the toe enough for tire wear?

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Dec 13, 2011 | 08:06 AM
  #1  
Hawkze_2.3's Avatar
Thread Starter
Honda-Tech Member
 
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 10,629
Likes: 1
From: Further down the spiral, TX, usa
Default Letting the car down 1/2" change the toe enough for tire wear?

Edit: Ughhh...title should say raising the car up 1/2"

So long story short the front suspension on my car is completely rebuilt, and when I put everything back together I dropped the adjustable Koni shocks to the lowest height. The car looked alright, but as time passes I am kinda concerned about the camber on the front wheels. The car got a laser alignment right after everything was installed, so as of now now toe is zero.

My question is; if I raise the car .25" or .5", is that going to change the toe enough to need another alignment (wear the tires prematurely)?

Not going for a slammed or herrafrush look
Attached Images   
Reply
Old Dec 13, 2011 | 10:39 AM
  #2  
TunerN00b's Avatar
Honda-Tech Member
 
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 7,539
Likes: 5
From: Sherman Oaks, CA, United States
Default Re: Letting the car down 1/2" change the toe enough for tire wear?

Always align the car after making any suspension changes.

Alignment are cheap compared to replacement tires, even more so when the additional gas burned is factored in (toe being off drags tires, which hurts mileage).
Reply
Old Dec 13, 2011 | 11:03 AM
  #3  
JHall250's Avatar
Honda-Tech Member
 
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 186
Likes: 0
Default Re: Letting the car down 1/2" change the toe enough for tire wear?

From stock ride height you would be okay to raise and lower the car without majorly throwing off the toe (a passenger with stock springs lowers the 1/2 to 3/4in on the passenger side. However, because you have the car lowered you should seriously considering getting an alignment after making any changes. Toe is not linear, the lower the ride height the bigger differences in toe are created by changing ride height.

In short, yes you need an alignment after making adjustments at your ride height.
Reply
Old Dec 13, 2011 | 12:03 PM
  #4  
Hawkze_2.3's Avatar
Thread Starter
Honda-Tech Member
 
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 10,629
Likes: 1
From: Further down the spiral, TX, usa
Default Re: Letting the car down 1/2" change the toe enough for tire wear?

Thanks guys, really appreciate it

Interesting that toe is not linear. I guess that makes perfect sense when you think about it. Control arm-horizontal length would definitely be parabolic and not linear, so that would dictate the toe as well....

I guess I will just leave it like it and watch the tire wear. It's not retarded-low, so I think I can deal with it.
Reply
Old Dec 13, 2011 | 08:14 PM
  #5  
kevinm1981's Avatar
Honda-Tech Member
 
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 7,446
Likes: 0
From: Mesa, AZ
Default Re: Letting the car down 1/2" change the toe enough for tire wear?

Also the rear toe barely changes at all when changing the height.
Reply
Old Dec 13, 2011 | 10:14 PM
  #6  
bnetkillzone's Avatar
Honda-Tech Member
 
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 649
Likes: 0
From: Bay Area, CA
Default Re: Letting the car down 1/2" change the toe enough for tire wear?

Originally Posted by solbrothers
always get an alignment after messing with your suspension. $150 for firestone lifetime alignment
Looking to get that also

Thats about 3 alignments. But you can get a lifetime, which is better.
Reply
Old Dec 14, 2011 | 07:43 AM
  #7  
GagnarTheUnruly's Avatar
Honda-Tech Member
15 Year Member
iTrader: (3)
 
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,842
Likes: 6
From: Mountains
Default Re: Letting the car down 1/2" change the toe enough for tire wear?

Which way does toe change when you lower the car?
Reply
Old Dec 14, 2011 | 09:07 AM
  #8  
EsotericImage's Avatar
Retired Moderator
iTrader: (8)
 
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,998
Likes: 3
From: Central Florida
Default Re: Letting the car down 1/2" change the toe enough for tire wear?

They really need to have the driver in the car so compensate for the squat when they do these alignments. Just like a corner balance.
Reply
Old Dec 14, 2011 | 01:09 PM
  #9  
Hawkze_2.3's Avatar
Thread Starter
Honda-Tech Member
 
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 10,629
Likes: 1
From: Further down the spiral, TX, usa
Default Re: Letting the car down 1/2" change the toe enough for tire wear?

Originally Posted by solbrothers
always get an alignment after messing with your suspension. $150 for firestone lifetime alignment
Yes! I always go to Firestone for alignments
Reply
Old Dec 14, 2011 | 01:14 PM
  #10  
Hawkze_2.3's Avatar
Thread Starter
Honda-Tech Member
 
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 10,629
Likes: 1
From: Further down the spiral, TX, usa
Default Re: Letting the car down 1/2" change the toe enough for tire wear?

Originally Posted by GagnarTheUnruly
Which way does toe change when you lower the car?
Depends entirely on the suspension geometry of the car...seems like in most cases you would end up going toe-in because the tie rods (or whatever holds the toe in the situation) would shorten by less than the control arms, so the knuckle would turn in slightly.
Reply
Old Dec 14, 2011 | 05:49 PM
  #11  
JHall250's Avatar
Honda-Tech Member
 
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 186
Likes: 0
Default Re: Letting the car down 1/2" change the toe enough for tire wear?

Originally Posted by GagnarTheUnruly
Which way does toe change when you lower the car?
Unless the car has some wacky suspension geometry

Front End: Toe-Out during compression (lowering)

Rear End: Toe-In during compression (lowering)

Toe curve on Hondas (the graph of alignment change during suspension movement) are determined by two main/major things, length ratio (the tie rods length vs the lower arms length) and angle of the tie rod vs the lower arm. In most cases the front has the steering rack mounted slightly too low so that tie rod pulls the knuckle creating toe out in compression (cornering) and the rear (on Civic/Integra) the front part of the trailing arm is pulled in by the angular articulation of the compensator arm (toe arm) causing toe in during compression.
Reply
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Don JD
Suspension & Brakes
5
Sep 23, 2009 05:44 PM
OmarR
Suspension & Brakes
3
Jul 2, 2008 04:18 PM
Accord-Guy
Suspension & Brakes
10
Apr 20, 2008 08:54 PM
jdadams12
Honda Accord (1990 - 2002)
12
May 2, 2006 06:46 AM
tomegun123
Honda Accord (1990 - 2002)
2
Jul 1, 2004 04:23 AM




All times are GMT -8. The time now is 11:10 PM.