F1 is concerened with Ferrari running away with everything and are making proposals to handicap dominant teams - most likely by the addition of weight.

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I'm not sure how I feel about something like that. While I would like to see some closer racing, it just doesn't seem right at some level...

 

Agreed.

 

At ANY level. Formula car racing is called that because everyone uses the same - duh - formula.

Instead, how about doing away with the requirement that teams build their own chassis? Ferrari (or anyone else) could build "production" chassis, using the jigs and molds from the previous year's car, and teams could buy something way more competitive than they can currently afford to develop. Of course, the constructors title would have to be changed as well. Might also get the field back to full capacity...

K

 

During the US F1 race, i thought i heard them mention, that may do away w/ all of the driver aids OR make the cars run on 1 set of tires the whole race. The announcers said that most likely they would do the 1 set of tires, since that would be much easier to enforce then all the electronics.

 

they were getting away with 'driver aids' when the rules stated they were illegal.... near impossible to enforce.

RJ

 

Actually I believe they said they wanted them to run on 1 engine for the weekend not one set of tires. The 1 tire comment was about Bridgey making one tire for all teams to use instead of making a specific compound for one team and a generic for others.

What driver's aides are illegal now?

 

[QUOTE]Actually I believe they said they wanted them to run on 1 engine for the weekend not one set of tires. The 1 tire comment was about Bridgey making one tire for all teams to use instead of making a specific compound for one team and a generic for others.

QUOTE]

i agree


[Modified by usuck, 6:24 PM 10/7/2002]

 

Save all that **** for the lesser series. Formula One is the "pinnacle", and there should be close to no limitations on spending. No "one engine" rule, no "one set of tires", none of that ****. save that **** for CART. Maybe if my last name was Jordan, or Prost I would be complaining about the expense of it all, but as a spectator, i want to see the most advanced, most expensive, most exotic, and fastest cars on the planet, and any of these lame *** rules will interfere with that!

 

I agree with the sentiment, but if nobody but Ferrari can afford to participate, there wouldn't be much to watch.

 

Once Ferrari is the only team left, they will lose interest, and go back to GT racing!

Then everyone else will be able to afford it.

Seriously, somebody needs to step up with a major car manufacturer Why doesn't BMW get off their *** and challenge? I mean with a full factory car. What about Ford and their Jaguar team? Honda (ducks for cover)? If any of these teams would step up to the plate with , let face it, enough money, they would do much better. The fact is they are trying to make it a business venture, and not a venture of passion.

Ferrari has the passion, and they don't mind spending the amount of money that they do. If no one else is passionate enough about it to spend the money, do they really deserve to win?

It was best said in a documentary about Ferrari: The road car business was only created to fund the racing team.

It was that way in the beginning, and it is that way now. No wonder everyone has a hard time beating them.


[Modified by Adrift, 2:34 PM 10/7/2002]

 

i've always said that but no one would believe me. why else would their cars be so expensive? because the make the best, fastest, and most advanced race cars out there....period. you can't argue that

 

as the spending has increased, the full factory teams are the only teams with enough $$ to ball with the big boys. Something like Rob Walker's operation in which he ran Jo Siffert for a number of years could never exist today.

Until other manufacturers buy out existing teams (are you listening, Honda?) Ferrari's dominance will continue. The word is that BMW wants chassis input regarding Williams' 2003 car, and Mercedes has bought Ilmor, the engine manufacturer. This period of Ferrari dominance may have signalled the beginning of the end of the traditional Formula1 constructor firm.

Imagine an F1 grid with Ferrari, Honda, M-B, BMW, Ford, GM, Toyota, Volkswagen/Audi AG? That would be pretty cool.

 

Ferrari is the only team the builds their chassis AND engine. All the other teams buy their chassis from other companies.

BTW, which team was using last year's Ferrari engine? Was that Sauber?

 

Sauber used last year's Ferrari engine, and Prost also had a similar agreement when they were still around.

Ferrari is not the only one that builds a complete car. Toyota does the same thing, and they have had a great first season.

 

I wasn't aware of that. You learn something new everyday. Thanks!

 

Ferrari is owned by Fiat. As Fiat is having trouble right now I look for them to drop the F1 ball in the next couple of years. Even with sponsorship I cant see a company like Ferrari still dominating like they do with giants like Toyota in the game for long. They spent something like 18 billion to get their program running. 18 BILLION JUST LIKE THAT. I personally love the red guys but I almost think it might be better for the series if it was more competetive. If any of you follow WRC this season was kinda boring cuz of puegot and their constant 1-2 or 1-2-3 finishes.

IMO, F1 might be more interesting with a rule change. Don't worry, as we have seen before the rule changes will not slow the cars down any. It will always be THE racing series.

 

i know....make all the NASCAR guys hop into the F1 cars and vice-versa....it'll be REAL intresting then.

 

Yeah, but that was in YEN!

 

I concur.

 

Ferrari will NEVER leave F1. They are owned by Fiat, but they have a fair degree of autonomy from Fiat and its partner, GM. GM bought a shitload of Fiat shares, but was given no stake in Ferrari which is pretty much a separate entity. Also, the Ferrari family is making noise about buying the company back from Fiat. Even more, Bernie Ecclestone, the richest man in Britain, is thinking about buying Ferrari himself. Ferrari will never leave F1...they ARE F1.

 

Come on.. that's a little dramatic, don't you think?

 

I'm honestly having a hard time with this debate (not that anyone would really care). While I do want to see the most technologically advanced cars out there, I want to see races week in and week out that have the excitement of the last 5 laps of IRL races. *GASP* Yes, I know what I just said, but if you don't know what I am talking about, try and find some footage of the waning laps of IRL races and look up the margins of victory (and yes, they were actually racing to the finish, not letting each other by or goofing up with "photo finishes"). The last 5 laps of the IRL race at Richmond earlier this year I attended were really exciting, and to be honest, the rest of the race was as well. Hell, most of the races I saw this year had a close pack of cars with no real runaway leaders.

However, I doubt that level of close competition cannot be obtained unless there are some sort of limitations placed on the technology employed by the teams. Which in turn takes away from the mystique of Formula 1 being the premiere racing league of technology and innovation. Oh well, just my thoughts.

Brian

 

Here's how to enforce them: Mechanical throttle linkage, mechanical brake linkage. Problem solved.

 

should we go back to carb'ed engines too?

 

Sorry Brian, I don't want to argue against you at all, but I have a different point of view of these "close racing" IRL races.

On these "flat out" superspeedways, you can't get anything *other* than close "racing" or more appropriately "cars beside each other". If these cars have been at Wide Open Throttle for the last 200 laps, the fact that they are bunched up close to each other has nothing to do with "racing", but a lot more with physics and the effects of drafting. 1 car alone just can not pull out a lead in on these tracks, especially in nascar. This defeats the whole purpose of racing, and makes these oval races nothing more than the same physics demonstrations over and over again. At the same time as the US F1 grand prix, I remember that there was one of these nascar highspeed races going on at the same time. Switching (accidentally!) to the nascar race during the F1 commercial breaks, just made me laugh every time. The same 15-20 cars that were bunched up nose to tail and side by side from the last commercial break switch over, were the same ones now, doing the exact same thing: Going around the circle over and over and over again. Surely it *must* get boring after watching them after a few of laps! Yes cars are side by side and that's really cool... but come on, I see cars 5 and 6 wide everyday on I285 here! Other than these cars going 3 times as fast at WOT, I see very little *racing*. It's more an exhibition of speed rather then a race, and if that was ever the issue, then CART dominated that side with the 240+ mph average speed they used to run at the US 500. Maybe not everyone shares this view on what real good *racing* really is, but having 50 cars go in circles at WOT for 400 laps is just not it, sorry. Yes speed is cool, but seeing the same thing straight for 3 hours is just boring. They should just televise the first 5 and last 5 laps instead. The only thing you might miss are the crashes. Every other second will be the same. The F1 race (although with a lot less "passes") was a whole lot more of a race than that nascar show, even with the Ferraris dominating like they did . I guess I'm not looking at this oval deal through the same fascinated eyes as the millions of fans out there. Oh well my loss, and I'll gladly take it. So going back to the IRL having "better racing", if you were to put the F1 cars on a 400 mile straight away and let them loose, you would have the same amount of passing and bunched up cars. Heck, probably even the Minardis would be able to eventually catch the Ferrari's draft and hang on. Just hope they don't go for a pass and get out of that precious draft! Now turn this long 500 mile straight away into a big oval with smooth banked turns and you can capture this great show and display of WOT drafting fun in front of grand stands. What a concept! Oh wait, that's what the indy 500 is. Too bad if anything were to go wrong, you have nice concrete walls to separate the cars doing 200+ mph from the grandstands. Hey, more fireworks for the fans! I don't even need to think about the horrible safety aspect of oval racing. Just thinking about the "close racing" aspect is enough to make me forget about ovals for a while. I know I'm missing something, so please someone please make me see the light out there and help me understand racing on ovals.