I've got myself into a little bit of a jam.

I ditched the fully built b16a turbo idea & opted for a fully built hybrid b18b to vtec head build instead.

I was not particularly keen on the entire ls block especially because of the lack of oil squirters and oil galleries, having to block off the oil galleries on the head & the external oil feed. Which is why, when a GSR block, rare to these shores, came up, I jumped at it. Vtec block to head, right, what could be better? A small loss in capacity, 1933cc vs 1973cc, but a better rod/stroke ratio at 1.58, so theoretically better revability, but marginally less power & torque.

So I bought it....

And its a lemon....

Problem was that it was a long distance away, & I had no real way of getting it checked in time.These things don't last long when they come up, so I had to act fast.

The engine has run bearings & the crank is scored. My friend who pulled it apart said that the spun bearing did not even fit into the cap, but the sump, girdle, tray, pickup, long bolts & caps look fine. Its just a rod or two and the crank. Now the rods & pistons are immaterial to me because I'm replacing them with Eagle H-beam rods & Wiseco 84mm 8.4/8.8cr pistons. The bore is not an issue if its shot because I am sleeving. The crank is the BIG issue. I don't want to cut it, because I don't want to chance anything.

I have a friend on holiday in Houston & had him look for a clean GSR crank. The landed cost is ridiculous, about $320.

So the possible solution. B18b/b20 crank with the b18b eagle H-beam rods? There are relatively plenty of these locally. Will this be a better option than my original plan with the GSR's stock crank & stock GSR height Eagle rods. It will make more power & torque. I will use all b18b ACL or Clevite bearings right, despite the main cap bearings that are actually narrower on the b18c setup?

Pros & cons? Just get another GSR crank & buy rods & bearings accordingly, or go for the b18b/ls crank and buy the respective rods, with all b18b bearings?

Remember, for now my goal is 600whp, but i will go for more later.

I really need opinions urgently, because I need to make a decision within the next few hours & take this seller to task or try to compromise. Either way, its going to be an uphill battle. I really want this 'vtec' block though.

 

Ok. your post is a bit confusing, but from what I'm gathering you've found an LS block, but the crank is bad. (Or you found a GS-R block with a bad crank, again, you're a bit confusing here.. can't tell which one you're referring to.

Either way, just find an LS crank and put it in the GS-R block and block the oil squirters anyway. (You'll need to for clearance, and you dont' need oil squirters on forged components. there are no additional benefits for doing so on the GS-R block, especially with sleeving. Trust me, I have a GS-R block with forged LS pistons in it, and its fine.)

If you have an LS block, don't go to a GS-R crank because it will just lower your torque and compression for the engine build.

Always match crank w/ rods of the same type. LS crank / LS rods, GS-R Crank / GS-R rods.

To get a true 2.0 Litre, you NEED LS Crank / LS/B20 Rods for your 84mm sleevining. You will NOT get that using the GS-R Crank.

And stop worrying about rod stroke ratio for this example, as it is meaningless for a build such as this.

 

I was going to get a b18b/ls block but got this gsr instead. The gsr has the bad crank.

Ok, so I'm actually better off getting the b18b rods and crank anyway? Now I get a 1973cc instead of a 1933cc gsr?

And I still have the benefit of a proper tec block.

Can I just not bend the squirters slightly out of the way to clear?

What about bearings? All b18b, mains and big ends, despite gsr caps that I will have to retain to clear the girdle?

Are the eagle rods up to the task of over 600whp and will I need to upgrade my wiseco wrist pins?

 

No. bending them out of the way is a big risk. Again, I've done that myself in my GSR block w/ LS Crank and Rods, and wound up scoring the cylinder walls. Simply rotating the crank assembly by hand to see if it clears the squirter is not enough, as it doesn't account for the lateral vibration that you will experience over 3000rpms.

Use plastigauge and check bearing clearances whether you use ACL or OEM.

You'll have 1973CC up to 1998CC depending upon how much is actually bored. But yes. The aftermarket rods that you get more than likely will have ARP rod bolts already in them. No need to worry about getting them seperately.

No need to change wrist pins. Eagle Rods will do 600whp very easily..

 

Done...Then I'm going to go this route. Tell me if anything is incorrect:

-B18c GSR block, sump, tray, girdle, pickup. Pretty much the entire bottom end, bar the following.
-Remove & block off oil squirters.
-B18b/LS 89mm crank. (Located a B20 one actually. Same thing.)
-Eagle H-beam 137.01mm b18b/LS rods that will have the ARP rod bolts.
-Wiseco 84mm 8.4/8.8cr pistons
-ACL race spec bearings. Big ends and mains for B18b/LS, this obviously despite the fact that I'm using the GSR caps, which clear the girdle.
-GSR ARP flywheel bolts.
-GSR ARP cap bolts (Is this neccessary, they will come with the 6 longer bolts & the 4 shorter bolts to accomodate for the girdle right?)
-Gates racing cambelt. I have both new Vtec oil & water pumps.

I do need to clarify though. With the b18b/LS/B20 89mm crank & 137.01mm rods, I won't have clearance issues between the LS crank & GSR girdle, will I?

Have I missed anything?

 

go with oem main bolts and flywheel bolts.

go for higher compression pistons, no need to go so low. there are no clearance issues with the girdle.

and also all the b series have the same main bearings.

 

A full sump pump (Unless you're referring to the oil "windage" tray.) isn't necessary, but its your call on that one. The mains used will be for a GS-R, not an LS for the girdle.

Also you can use ARP flywheel bolts if using say, an aluminum flywheel and not a chromoly one, but again, your call.

Are you using OEM rods? You saying LS rods that ha ARP rod bolts. The Eagle H-Beam rods for the LS already have these bolts for the rods included in the package. There is no need for additional rod bolts.

 

I will use the OEM bolts then.

Pistons I have already. K545M84, CRV/Vtec 8.4-8.8. I've been told that on an 84mm B18, or B20, the compression will work out to around 9:1. If I went with the next highest cr piston, I would have to use K649M84 9.3-9.6, so logic would dictate a cr of 9.8:1? Thats too high. The most important factor to consider is the poor fuel quality in SA. At a cr of anything above 9:1 there will be reduced margin for error when tuning. The car will see high boost & race fuel occasionally, but for the most part it will be a 1bar daily drive, so the wellbeing of the motor is imperative. If I need to raise cr a bit, I will do a light skim on the head, to perhaps bring it to 9.2:1?

http://www.wiseco.com/Catalogs/Sport...AcuraHonda.pdf


I'm referring to the windage tray, when I say tray. I know that I will need to use the GSR main caps, because the centre 3 main caps on the GSR are shorter to accomodate the girdle.

Im using my OEM flywheel just balanced & marginally lightened. As stated above, and based on your advice as well, I will stick to OEM flywheel & main cap bolts.

I'm not using OEM rods. I'm using b18b/LS 137.01mm Eagle H-beam rods, & I am aware that the come with ARP rod bolts.

I guess the only point I need further clarification on is what bearings to use. As advised, for the main caps (GSR), I need to use b18b/LS bearings, although I've ben told that the GSR main caps actually take a narrower bearing with the full GSR setup. So b18b/LS main cap bearings on the GSR main caps it is.

Obviously, because I'm using a B18b/b20/LS crank & the appropriate Eagle b18b/LS rod, I will need to use b18b/LS rod bearings?

Will the cambelt I need be a high reving Gates B18c unit? Part#? I'm using a 22 tooth Vtec water pump.

Just another question. I have two Walbro 255lph pumps that I meant to use as a twin intank side by side setup. Should I stick to this or sell one & go 1 intank & one inline. I'm considering a Bosch external pump as the secondary pump, not sure of the exact details, but it's around 400 something lph. Perhaps just outside the tank, or actually in the engine bay.

 

use the caps that came with the block, no matter what crank you use.

like i said previously, all the b series main bearings are the same.

use ls rod bearings. as an alternative, you can use b16 rod bearings; they are tri-metal vs bimetal.

 

You've been told incorrectly. As wiseco has Compression ranges that fit exactly for the B20/VTEC. you start overthinking now, you WILL miscalculate.
The part number you need is either
K649M84 for the 84mm
K649M845 for the 84.5mm

Logic does not dictate 9.8:1.. even if it did, that's still not too high. Get out of the 90's with tuning technology j/k.

9.6.0:1 compression is NOT too high if you have any competent tuners in South Africa with the right fuel. That's better response off-boost and better recovery spool in between gears. If he can tune 8.8. He can tune 9.6.

Don't overthink based upon some anomaly of being told bad information. I have no motive for getting your engine blown up being over 6000K away from my location. ;-).

 

Interesting about the b16 rod bearings. Will that actually be a better option? I can do either the b18 or b16.

I have the K545M84 8.4-8.8 already. I can't afford to get another set. What can I do with these to salvage the situation? Skim the head, deck the block? If so, by how much?

 

Ok, I've searched and the conclusions are either not solid or do not really apply to my situation.

Taking into account my 8.4 to 8.8 cr pistons, I've heard that a gsr head will increase cr a bit, so this will help the situation somewhat. Perhaps combined with some higher cr valves?

But this isn't the primary motivation. I've also read that the gsr head is preferable to a b16 head for boost as it is more capable of preventing detonation.

The guy I bought the gsr sub from is selling the head. Should I buy it? Will the Supertech valvetrain I bought, i.e. springs and retainers for the b16a head work on the GSR?

I also modified my intake on the b16 head to a bigger plenum. I know I can't use it on the gsr, but will the stock gsr intake be sufficient fora 600whp build.

I had intended doing a bit of work on the b16 head. If I get the gsr head, should I do the same?

 

Bump for some info....

 

why not ask jakes,since these guys mite be sleeping at this time and ul only get answers again at about 2pm our time,or the hondatrix on our forum,theres also extreme eg that mite help or versloot,just saying to help with ur time/money restrictions

 

Lol, thanks man. I normally talk to Marko or Riaan, but you can't really get them during the day either. Jakes is almost always on the dyno.

There are a couple VERY well versed individuals here who's advice I hold in high regard, so I ask here too. I know I will get an answer later, but I just bumped the thread up to the first page to prevent it from getting lost.

 

Yes:-)

 

would a LS crank in a gsr block w/ 9:1 pistons stock bore make any difference? or would it be better running all motor?

 

Please create your own thread for this. But short answer is no. No difference.