Hi Folks,

Ive just installed my PFC, and after completing the 30min idle self learn adjustment, I encountered knocking problems.

Engine: B16A2 (EM1 / Si)
ECU: Apexi PFC
Map: B16B (preloaded)
Injectors: OEM
Ignition: OEM
Fuel: Vortex98ron
Current Fuel Pressure: 43psi (thanks to the SARD FPR).
Current Mods: I/H/E/FPR

Future: DW 500cc Injectors/snail/walhbros

After completing the 30min idle self learn according to the apexi manual.
-car idles smoothly at 750rpm
-car starts without any CEL codes

PROBLEM
Once i start revving above 3500rpm on neutral (slow rev)
- Knock levels goes past 50
- Throws a CEL code @ 0.1secs flashes 3 times (so then i release the pedal)

Then i try a hard rev once it passes 3500rpm on neutral
- Knock levels passes 50 again
- Throws a CEL code @ 0.1secs flashes 3 times and keeps flashing until the rpm drops back below 3500rpm.

On idle the Ignition timing shows 14 to 16deg on the commander (gradually increases as the revs goes up).

All current injector duty cycles shows 100% with 0.00ms latency for all 4 OEM injectors.

Ok - so its obvious that its detonating/knocking - are there anyways to drop the IGN or INJ settings in the commander?

NB: The IGN/INJ TEST settings on the commander - is a temp only solution which allows you to ghost the timing/injector on all map curves - Advance or Retard. But once the engine is switched off it looses the memory as its only ghosting.

TROUBLESHOOTING
I dont believe that any adjustments or alterations has been done to the dizzy / crank angle timing. So this should be OEM stock settings.

On the commander - sensor checks - there are no flashing or faulty sensors = can rule this out.

i dont think it would be the injectors maxing out as apparently the OEM B16A injectors are capable of withstanding 330hp before maxing out.

NB: I dont have access to the OEM P2T ecu no more, or a timing gun, so this is method is ruled out.

when i still had the OEM P2T ecu, it has never thrown any CEL codes nor went into limbo mode.

hence - why i believe the knock sensor is still working.

1)
I also played round with the ign/inj test and advanced the IGN Cor up by +1-5 showin 20+ timing deg and still knocked.

2)
Tried lowering the deg by increaments of -1-5 and noticed the knock / cel illuminated @ 2500rpm with max knock of 80. This was fked up as it made it worse.

3)
I lowered the inj DC to 85% for all 4 injectors but that didnt do a thing.

Below is a snapshot of the 8channel monitoring

as you can see - this is on IDLE and it clearly shows knocking levels already




Cant tow the car as its going to cost me a fair amount of $$$, so in the interim, i need to sort out what is causing the detonation.

is there any settings/data values i could try to set on the commander prior to driving the car safely to a tuner without the engine knocking/detonating?

NB: I do not have a FC-PRO or FC-Dataloggit to check 20x20map.

Any help, settings, is appreciated.

 

You need to check physical timing with a timing gun firts. Knock sensor hits at 60 count typically. But if its doing that at 3500rpms, that sounds like physical tiiming. Don't assume, see if you can borrow a timing light and get it to 16 degrees oem. Otherwise, you don't have the tools to get this figured out. Timing light, change of distributor or other settings. Hard to do anything.

 

so if the FC Commander is reading / monitoring / showing 14-16deg on the IGN Timing values ...currently,

then there isnt really anything i need to adjust on the physicall timing right?

or is the read out from the FC Commander only from the sensors?

hence why i need a timing light/gun to check the timing reading on the BDTC? / timing pulley?

are these two timing readings different from each other?

to adjust would be adjusting from the crank or from the dizzy is sufice enuf?

 

The readout from the PFC is from the sensors. Just make sure the crank is lined up correctly for 16 degrees, then fine tune from the distributor. In other words, check both.

 

sweet will check these,

its weird coz on the OEM P2T Ecu, ive never had any issues with knocking nor throwing any CEL codes.

so i wouldnt think there would be any timing issues.

but yes, ill get a timing gun and check the deg values - should it be +16deg or neg 16deg? or dead centre on the crank pulley?

how can you measure the timing from the dizzy? via the FC Commander IGN timing?

other than that - any other possibilities that may cause knock especially at an early RPM level.

 

It may also be just engine "noise" or electromagnetic pulses within engine affecting the ECU. Which means its not truly knocking, but is causing the knock sensor to activate. Otherwise, drive slowly to the tuner and get it tuned.

We did it already with the same ECU

https://honda-tech.com/forums/all-motor-naturally-aspirated-44/shodan-project-she-2915107/