Hey HT..

I am planning out a chassis build and wondering what I'm missing on the parts list. Everything engine performance related will be omitted from this list for brevity.

I am treating the motor/chassis as two completely separate projects. (I have my motor semi-built running in another car - the CRX I buy will have a running motor in it. I will build the CRX chassis until complete, and then pop the hood and swap in the built B20v)

So far my list is as follows...

Suspension/Chassis
- Koni Yellow struts
- Ground Control adjustable coil-springs
- strut tower tie-bars (front/rear)
- thicker sway bars (front/rear, still deciding thickness)
- rear lower control arms (aftermarket)
- front traction bar (aka crossmember - helps prevent wheel hop w/drag starts)
- fender chassis stiffeners (also called A-brace, they connect near the door hinges and by the headlights for added rigidity)
- rear lower control arm tie bar
- adjustable camber kits (front/rear)
- Mugen/Hardrace trailing arm bushings
- Energy Susp polyurethane bushings everywhere else
- Enkei RPF1 rims (if i can find them wider than 6.5inch)
- shock tower mount risers (Gnd Cntrl makes them, they lower the shock mounts 1" - like having a 1" lift)
- 4pt roll cage (maybe more)
Brake System
-oversized front calipers/rotors (Acura Legend/teg, nsx I dunno yet)
-oversized rear disc (del sol? I dunno yet)
-correct proportioning valve for front/rear balance
-Integra master cylinder (larger than CRX oem I think)
-new parking brake cable (may have to be modified w/big brakes to work right)
-stainless braided lines (front/rear)
-quality brake pads (not autozone, maybe ceramic, not sure yet.. Hawk/EBC greenstuff)
-slotted rotors (brembo FOR MUD USE, NOT FOR SUPPOSED FALSE PERFORMANCE GAINS)

 

Steering
- manual rack (no P/S plz)
- ES rack bushings
- Momo/sparco wheel
- new oem tie rod ends/balljoints
Interior
- Lightweight seats (sparco fighter II probably)
- Short shifter/bushings/linkage etc
- racing harness (4pt probably)

WHAT HAVE I FORGOTTEN?

thanks a lot HT

 

Nice part list, in my opinion you should lose the rear lower tie bar and get a subframe brace and get a anti-roll bar. What are you tuning the chassis for tho? Drag? Street? AutoX? Thats what makes the difference in better set ups. If drag then you dont need much in the rear accept for the lower control arms with ES bushings and a stiff spring rate with good shocks. If you AutoXing it then going with a good rear suspension set up is of course recommended.
LCAs
ES bushings
Anti-roll bar with subframe brace and lower tie bar
semi-stiff spring rate (you want a little bit of roll or you will just slide off the road)
If street, you dont necessarily need any of this BUUUUUT its to fun to hit corners, and dip through lanes with a quickness ( those actions are not legal so dont do as i say).
Just my .02 but if you need any help with your suspension set-up dont be afraid to ask me or any of our other HT broz and sis!!! GLWB

 

If it isn't going to be a drag car, you might want to consider putting in a Quaife quick ratio steering rack into a DX or HF rack. Here is the how to: http://accutach.com/Documents/QuaifeRackUpgrade.pdf

 

The subframe brace is useless on the 88~91 chassis.
It was originally designed as a solution for the EG chassis because their chassis would rip apart in the back.
88~91 chassis is built more rigid and does not have this problem.
The rear lower tie bar would be a better component if you want something that actually has a performance affect.

You do not need the rear lower arms, but I'm guessing with this parts list that you just added it on there for bling.

If you get the ES master kit for your car it may have the steering rack bushings already. Then you don't have to list/purchase them separately.

After you decide on your caliper set up for your brakes, then you should figure out which master cylinder size would be appropriate. If you go with Integra brakes up front and discs in the rear, then that is just like the Integra. But if you keep drums in the back and use Integra brakes up front, then that's a lot like the Civic EX sedan. You are looking for NSX in front and rear disc which is close to the ITR.

Don't forget steering knuckles or the Big Brake kit.

If this is staying on the street, then just get a 2 point hoop cage. A 4 point has bars that pass by your head and no matter how much padding you put on it, in an accident your head might hit it and smash like a pumpkin. I guess you could just drive around with a helmet on all the time.

If you can fit it under your motor, get a front lower tie bar.


BUT BEFORE ANYTHING
What in the world are you building?
It's a long list of parts and it seems like you are just tossing stuff on there with no reason?
Did you win the lottery and just decided to waste some cash?
The biggest tip off is your brake pad selection. You are putting on these performance parts on, but it's screaming "I'm don't have a clue about racing" because you are looking to put "maybe ceramic" or "maybe Hawk". Some brake pads work well at cooler temps and others fail to work at cool temps, but awesome on a track at high temps.

 

ima agree with 4dref, doesnt really seem like you have a idea of what you are building your car for.

btw i dont think ive ever seen a set of rpf1 that are 6.5 inch... even if you did pick up a 6.5 wide rim, i doubt you will know the difference on the track just judging off of your maybe ceramic maybe hawk pads


not trying to start anything, just trying to help

if you let us know what you plan to do with your car, we can help direct what would be best for you

 

Hey so what exactly is a subframe brace? I'm guessing it connects the rear shock towers to something, but i dunno exactly. I forgot to mention that I'm going with a rear hoop roll bar (nothing near my head for safety reasons.) -- Yeah the rear will be full ES bushings, might as well get the aftermarket control arms in there for bling >.<

I'm not sure what my spring rate will be yet, but i hope to get a custom spring rate spring made or atleast something very close to my goal. the rear spring rate will depend on the back end of the car when i'm done building it. thanks!

hey thats a good idea but I hope to get an SI oem rack swapped in. the qu33f rack is 2.4LTL, the DX/HF rack is 3.88LTL, I have a civic rack (power) that is 3.25LTL ---- but the SI rack is the winner at 4.1LTL.

I find that when your steering is tooooo tight, the car is jittery and feels twitchy over 100mph.

What I am building is a very quick and nimble streetable CRX. as for brake pads - I haven't had time to become an expert on pads yet so I am undecided. I am aware that ceramic only work at high temp in a race enviroment. I'm thinking maybe hawk/ebc greenstuff, or something else. I just don't want to run cheap autozone no-name pads (even though I probably will end up doing just that because i have the braking system of a 3600lb car on a 1900lb car and can afford the 'performance loss.')

What's a subframe brace... this?

if so, yes i will get a subframe brace and a rear lower tie bar.

and yes I will be getting a master kit of ES bushings, it will include the rack bushings.

i will try to fit a lower tie bar under my motor as well, and a rear hoop roll bar/cage for rear chassis rigidity.

as for brakes (i hate thinkin about brakes, they get confusing) -- what size were the oem integra brakes for this 'standard' teg brake swap? (11.1" fnt/ what what was the rear?)

as for parts - here's what I have to work with....

94 del slo vtak discs (front 10.3inch, rear 9.4inch) - complete on car so i have all control arms, ball joints, hubs, everything
96 odyssey discs (front 11.1inch, rear 11.1inch (smaller calipers in rear for proportion) - also complete car with all related parts.

I want to do a 5x114.3mm lug swap (however I have to do it with whatever parts i need) because i'm pretty much set on Enkei RPF1 rims. If I go with 16" rims i can have 8inch wide tires (front.) If I can stuff 17inch rims under there, i can have 10inch wide front tires for traction. I think this will be possible because I may lift the car one inch.

I've also heard a rumor about using accord suspension because it raises the car an inch (apart from my 1inch lift, so i would be 2inch lifted.)

dunno if it's just a rumor tho....

 

So you are building this up with all those parts to be "very quick and nimble streetable CRX".

What's wrong with just leaving it stock?
Goal achieved and your wallet is not drained.

I hardly see how any of these parts are going to help you in your everyday commute to the supermarket.
mean, YEAH, some of those right turns around corners are tight, but if you slow down just a bit so you have a moment to look for any pedestrians then you don't get any body roll.

 

5 lug set up wont be noticed at all for a nimble street car

if you are just gonna have all season tires and never auto cross your car go with autozone pads, rotors, fluid. as your tires will still give out before your brakes do.

if you put a decent set of tires on meant to be used not wasting their small tread life on supermarket trips... then i would just recommend the hawk hp-s pads on autozone rotors (or brembo blanks), with ate super blue fluid (DONT throw reg/cheap dot 3 as you will prob just boil your fluid after the 2nd decent brake)

that would easily suffice/be best for brakes on your street build

 

@4drEF

some would say i do it for the love of an art some would call insane. call it what you will. as a professional mechanic i draw a distinct line between 'capable of getting around town' and 'pleasurable to drive.'

why buy a ferrari? because you have body-roll when you accelerate from a stop sign and make a right turn? no.

and recommend me something better to spend the money on....

@JDMpunk

all excellent points re:brakes/tires. I plan to have a sh*tty set of tires handy for everyday driving, and when I order the RPF1 from tirerack i will get some nice sticky tires on them and get a spare set. and it doesn't snow here, but rains a lot during winter. so snow isn't a concern, water is.

the biggest issue right now is brakes, and trying to figure out what components i'll need for my big-brake kit.

thanks for the shouts guys!

 

If all you want is a nimble and quick crx, just get a decent suspension (the koni/GC would be perfect) and install your b20 vtec. It would be quick, handle well, and just as fun to drive on the street as if you were to install all those other fancy parts you mentioned.

From reading your posts, I feel you are aiming to do more of a "restoration of a crx with new and imporved products."

 

it doesnt sound like your too serious about racing in any way, so i would recommend my later statement with the hawk hp-s pads on brembo blanks with some ate super blue fluid. that set up would easily hold anything you could throw at it (with a set of kuhmo xs or similar rated tire). although i would not recommend dailying any sticky tire like those as you would almost be pissing away your money due to their tread depth, plus i would be a lil worried about dailying with tires like that with rain and such. but im sure people out there do it

the big brake kit pretty much just be a huge waste of money. if you really want to upgrade them just get some crx si brakes

 

I could just drop in b20 and bolt on some koni ylw/GC... i really could. but it wouldn't be fast enough. (I have the b20v in my del sol and it's slow. i don't understand how ppl can think a 1.5L is fast......)

@JDMpunk

I'm doin the brake upgrade as a byproduct of 5 lug conversion. I would leave the brakes the way they were - but if i'm gonna have 300hp NA motor, i will need as much traction as i can get. therefore I need widest rims i can get (largest contact patch to asphalt) - ten inch wide rims should do it nicely - and i like enkei RPF1 rim look, but the ten inch is only available in five lug 17x10inch. so i must lug convert from 4x100 to 5x114.3mm. in the process i might as well upgrade the brakes (cuz i'll be needing new knuckles etc....)

i will put your info down in my notebook as 'brake setup' until further notice.

11.1" fronts.. slotted (for channeling water/mud off disc surface)
10.3" rear ""....""

bigger master cylinder (for less pedal push pressure)
might delete the booster (for weight and prettyness)
prop valve (adjustable wilwood so i can dial in the rears)
ss lines throughout
brand new oem parking brake cable (not some old stretched POS)

might get aftermarket brembo rotors (slotted)
hawk HP-s pads
ATE super blue fluid

for tires i haven't done any research... ill look into them later (i have lots of 5lug old rims/worn tires to roll on in the meantime) something with rly good rain performance and a little stickier than normal costco/walmart/midas crap.

thanks for the shouts guys!

what am I missing from that parts list I posted up there ^^^^^ (first post)

 

10" rims fit?

 

They will when I'm done with the car.

 

Does a professional mechanic consider safety?

The oversized MC will make for less push distance, not less pressure. You will be losing some pedal 'feel' so when modulating the brakes in tight situations will lessen your ability to bring the car to a quick stop without locking up the brakes and sliding.

I hope you pop the hood a lot with this performance grocery getter. No booster is good idea for one photo shoot on a street car.

 

no offense but deleting your booster goes against your whole quick/nimble car idea

thats kinda like legitly building a block for boost, while pushing a t28 at 5lbs of boost

 

The oversized MC will make for tighter braking pressure, not less feel. Removing all the spongy links in the equation (ie rubber lines between caliper and hardlines) - therefore keeping tight pedal 'feel' while modulating the brakes.

Today I was driving into town, and an elderly woman decided to change lanes (w/o signalling) - The roads were wet and I was on 5.5" wide tires with minimal traction. (Maintaining even speed of 44mph.) I was bumper to bumper with her (in opposite lanes) when she started turning, i threw the weight of the car to the right (no one behind me, soft shoulder) - locked up the brakes and countersteer'd for re-correction, caught the car and re-corrected. As I passed her, I realized she didn't even know she turned in front of me - let alone realized anything had happened when the car next to her locked up and squealed sideways.

Situations like this happen on a monthly basis, coupled with corporate-owned road renovations (read:not in my neighborhood).

Tomorrow I will post some pixz0rz of the road around my area for 110% perfect build incentives..

thanks guys!

 

bump

 

K... so you take out the rubber lines and do stainless to lessen sponginess. That is an amazing upgrade and I feel it should be OEM anyhow. However, there is nothing spongy about swapping MCs so I'm not sure why you included that in your thought.
Putting a larger MC pushes more fluid to the calipers for the same pedal travel..

i'm going to take this to the extremes to better explain. Hypothetically figure on a stock brake system you have to press the pedal about 6 inches down to achieve wheel lock up at 50 mph.
You then "upgrade" the MC to a much larger one. You then only have to press the pedal 3 inches to get the same lock up at the same speed.
You might be thinking wow! that is great because you don't have to press the brake pedal down as far any more..
What I'm telling you is that you reduced the 'feel' since you now reduced the modulating window by 3 inches.

In tight situations, you want to modulate your brakes so that the maximum amount of brake is applied without the tires losing grip and sliding. Once the wheels slide, it takes a lot longer for the car to come to a stop than if you kept them from sliding in the first place (that's why ABS systems unlock the brakes when they detect wheel slide).
The less of a window you have to get this ideal brake pressure, then the harder it becomes to modulate. Sort of like a normal light switch (the over-sized MC) that is either OFF or ON, compared to a dimmer switch (properly sized MC) that does OFF and ON, but also gives you good control of everything in between.

 

You have perfectly articulated your point and I know exactly what you are talking about now.

The entire philosophy behind this build is the best handling, quickest CRX I can build with any parts available to use, designed and assembled with my own hands.

Maybe I'm a little excited, but I want the biggest brakes I can stuff into that little cars 17inch rims. So if this were your build, what would you do? (difficult question to ask, because everyone has different priorities.)

Would you upgrade the SS lines, larger calipers/discs front/rear, 10inch wide tires front/rear with good rubber on them - and how would you solve the master cylinder equation? Keep the smaller master cylinder (which would theoretically INCREASE pedal feel (decrease braking strength) because you have to put more weight on the pedal (to move more fluid into the larger calipers.)

ORRRR would you upgrade to a larger master cylinder and mess with the fulcrum of the pedal to give longer pedal travel for the same braking effect?

thanks