I've decided to shelve the idea of a b16 build & instead opted to get a b18b block & MID sleeve it to accomodate 84mm pistons, so almost a b20.

I'm not sure what turbo to go with, but an almost new Turbonetics T61 non-ball bearing has been offered to me at a good price.

How well will this work, vs the ball bearing that I was originally loking for?

Where in the rev range will the turbo start spooling? Unlike the idea behind the b16, the b18 won't rev as high, so I don't want something that will spool too late.

Any advice will be appreciated.

 

pretty old design turbo, why not get something that wil be properly suited for the engine application? Get a power goal in mind and go from there. Cams go a long way in an LS motor. and will give you more rpm for a wider variety of turbochargers. PM me if you need more infor on cam choice

 

Yes, I know, but unfortunately good bb turbos are ridiculously expensive locally, because everything is imported, so add a wack for shipping & customs. I can get one of those eastern produced low quality crap bb turbos, but I figured the Turbonetics, bar being non-bb, will be of a far better quality & a better bet. My previous turbo for the b16 build was a Precision SC32, so non bb as well.

Having said that this Turbonetics turbo has a stage 5 exhaust wheel & a 0.69 exhaust housing. A friend who would know better said it sounds a bit too big on the exhaust housing.

I have GSR manual cams.

Power...as much as I can get, lol.

Below are the parts I had acumulated for the b16 build, which, for the most part, will be used for the b18, apart from the obvious block, hg, rods, arp headstuds & turbo, so you tell me?

B16 Turbo:
-Vtec head with Supertec valvetrain, turbo spec.
-Will be sleeving my block & boring for 84mm pistons, i.e. 1750L
-84mm Wiseco pistons.
-Eagle rods.
-GSR Cams.
-STR Cam gears.
-ATI damper pulley.
-Clutch Net clutch.
-ACL race bearings.
-ITR girdle, sump & pickup, with extended bolts.
-Baffle plate.
-ARP head studs.
-Cometic headgasket
-Avid Racing engine mounts.
-880cc Precision injectors.
-Snow performance boost cooler.
-AEM fuel rail & regulator.
-Custom large plenum Intake.
-Twin Walbro 255lph fuel pumps.
-180i gearbox with Quaiff LSD diff.
-Manual Boost Controller.
-Tial wastegate.
-GReddy DV.
-Precision SC32 Turbo.
-Ramhorn manifold.
-Intercooler.
-Oil cooler.
-Oil catch tank.
-New OEM oil & waterpumps.
-Ingalls Torque Damper
-Skunk2 front & rear upper swaybars. (need to get front & rear lower, & also want extended balljoints)
-Tein Control Master Type Flex coilovers with EDFC.
-Diktator management.
-Modified dizzy.
-76mm exhaust.
- Piping
-Aluminum radiator (Mishimoto rep.)

 

It works. its the same turbine wheel used in the Precision lineup of the SC61 series all the way to the Precision 6262 (with the exception of the new CEA turbine wheel recently released), and they use the same ceramic ball-bearings as the Precision unit. The difference is the design of the billet wheel of the Precision which came as a derivative of the GT4718 Garrett. (this means to say that its a nice design).

You'll make over 600whp with it, depending upon cylinderhead and what you want to do with the car.

A turbonetics isn't a bad deal, its fine to go with that if you wish, if the over 600whp is what you're looking for. If you're worried about "spool", simply get a smaller turbocharger.. bottom line.

 

I will be using my b16 head with the Supertech valvetrain.
Remember, the Turbonetics is non-ball bearing. Will this still be fine. At what rpm will I expect it to start spooling?

My car will be a dd on low boost & used for 1/4 mile on the weekends, & a bit of traffic light to traffic light .
How could I expect it to perform on low boost, say 1bar for dd?

 

That's a big turbo on a small engine. Revving is great but only goes so far. Most people with that combination reach about 20psi and under by about 5000- 5500rpms, depending upon tune and the rest of your equipment.. Even with the Ball-bearing version, it won't be any significantly less than that. If you're purpose is for drag racing, again, it works for the power, but even at lower boost outside of its efficiency range, you'll be doing a lot of shifting to make this baby move.

 

How about if I change the exhaust housing for a smaller one?

 

Won't change by that much, even if going to a smaller exhaust Housing. A few hundred rpm difference..Maximum. Face it.. Big turbo, small motor, medium boost = LAG. No matter what you do.

 

Forget this turbo, it got sold last night anyway

I spoke to a reputable local guy this morning about having a Garrett turbo made to spec. He suggested a GT3582R, but NON-ball bearing.

What spec, or considering I'm having it custom built, what suggested alternative turbo?

 

Umm. your designer is basically the SAME THING THAT YOU HAVE ALREADY, just in a different T3 housing. hehehhe.

You need to go SMALLER if you want response, but 500whp on pump gas is what's hurting your ideal type of setup.

 

Damn I give up, lol.

Ok, you tell me what to get. The guy will build any turbo with only Garrett parts,
I'm looking for a little over 600whp on high boost & race fuel. Daily driving on pump fuel will be 1bar.

Would it be possible to mod my SC32 to go beyond it's 480hp rating.

 

No. you can't change it without significant cost. Might as well get new. I agree with only using Garrett parts. If you WANT 600whp and race fuel, and want to do it with less pressure, and ONLY do it with Garrett parts (which is just fine), then you want something decently large. about a T3/T67 .82A/R turbocharger. Turbine wheel alone will support that.

Now I know there will be those that say, "why not Precision?" Answer: Because they don't use Garrett parts, and in his part of the world, Garrett rebuilds are much easier to deal with then Precision or even Turbonetics. (Which also does not use Garrett Parts).

For what he needs, he doesn't need the super latest ball-bearing /billet stuff. He just needs about 450whp street, and over 600whp track. Just remember, because your goal is so high for the drag strip, get used to the fact that this turbo WILL BE LAGGY AND THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT, for the type of use you're trying to use this for.

Tell him T3/T66(67), .82A/R, journal bearing, and be done.

 

Could not have said it better myself, lol.

I will talk to him tomorrow.

You know I'm going to ask this. How laggy. Spool at what rpm. Will it still really perform on the street at 450?

 

I'm just a little confused. A friend told me that .89 is a T4.

How about:
Master power with garrett internals. T61 with 3rd stage conversion(big shaft) AR 70 with 58 exhaust housing,turbo made up to push 600hp. I can get this very cheap.

 

No. You're playing games again with the 61mm. the one he was going to make was similar to the other one he was going to build you as a GT35 Journal bearing. the same exhaust wheel 74mm ("conversion) is what comes standard with the T67. He was just going to make the same T61 with a 74mm instead of a 71mm, and put it in a big T4 housing.

You're getting these cheap because he wants you in T4, and it just makes a bad situation worse for your B16 engine.

I stopped putting Garrett internals in Master Powers because the tolerances sucked and the damn things STILL fell apart after only a few months of use.

.82 is T3. .58,.68,.91 are all T4.

 

A little confusion here. I've canned the b16 idea for a while now. I'm actually going with a b18, MID sleeves with 84mm Wiseco pistons. 1975cc IIRC.

Having said that, does it change the spec on the turbo you suggest somewhat?

BTW, big surrprise....not, you are 100% .82 is a T3

http://www.turbocharged.com/catalog/thousing.html

 

Even at a B18, the same turbo would apply, your max boost/rpm would be a little lower. More like 4600-4800rpm for 20psi and under.

 

I realize its probably way out of your price range, but howabout the new BW EFR turbos?

 

Price is WAY too high for his budget, plus, his local source is a Garrett dealer, and repairability of that EFR is ridiculously complicated, if you can get it. South Africa, remember?

 

I've decided to lower my whp goal a bit, to perhaps accomodate a more realistic dd/street car, combined with being able to run a decent 1/4 mile,
say, 11's category, hopefully on the lower end of that scale?

That said , how about a T3/T61, .82A/R, journal bearing, if it's even possible.
Perhaps then I would be able to spool up allot quicker, 4000rpm, & be able to get very close to 550whp on race fuel, & 350/400 on low boost, with my GSR cams.

 

There you go. Though personally I would make sure he used a Stage 5 in a .63A/R (yes, it can be done), and you'd be about 4500-4700. But it MUST BE Stage 5 (71mm) in a .63A/R. You will not choke it. Just trust me on this one.

 

I've looked around and came up with this:
'T61 AR70/63 EXHAUST BALL BEARING TURBO'

This is the description the guy gave me. He says its an oversized wheel, big shaft.

Its nothing fancy, but its bb and almost new. With this turbo if anything goes wrong repair kits are cheap and easy to find.

So?

 

Not true. Repair kits are not cheap and easy to find for the Ceramic Dual Ball-bearing turbo. He is using either a 71mm or 74mm exhaust shaft) (74mm is considered to be oversized and can still fit in a .63A/R, which is fine). The ceramic bearings wear a little faster than steel, and not evenly, But what happens is you won't get any better response than a standard journal bearing because there is no change in wheel design.

It can work, but what he is saying about "kits are cheap and easy to rebuild" is simply not true. You'll still see full pressure under 20psi by about 4400-4700.

He's just trying to give options for the same turbo in about 3 different ways. its ok, just don't believe the "easy to repair part". But it will make the power you're looking for.

 

No, this turbo isn't from the guy that builds turbos. Its a random guy who has one for sale. It was on his Audi for about 1000kms, but based on the nature of the cars use, track & gymkhana, the turbo spools far too late & he needs something with more grunt at the bottom. He isn't running huge power, low boost.

The turbo is one of the eastern bb 'cheapies', still relatively expensive by local standards, but they have been used with success. I'm getting it at half the regular price, which makes it less than a third the price of a Turbonetics T4/T61 journal bearing. The few shops that are the local importers & suppliers keep repair kits in stock.

I know, it won't have the longevity of a branded turbo, but the intention is to save to get a proper Turbonetics or Garrett bb turbo after a couple months/year.

On a different note. A friend is scaring me with stories about the arp rod bolts breaking on b18 Eagle rods. He schemes 80% failure on d series over 450whp. According to him the b16 has 10mm bolts, but b18, 20 & d series use 8mm, hence the problem!!! Fact or fiction?

 

Again, that's up to you. Price and low quality just leads to problems later. I'm not your parent.. its up to you.

As for your second point fiction. that means he's not torquing them down properly. many of us, (including myself, have been on the same arp rod bolts on Eagle H-beamsfor over 10 years on the same set). You have to go by ARP's specifications for torque down unlike OEM.