We've been having serious problems going through wheel bearings like nobody's business. Particularly at Roval style courses where we spend a lot of time on banked oval sections, and particularly 24 hour races.

car is a 1990 honda civic LX sedan with D16z6

So, Questions:
-What wheel bearing grease should we pack our bearings with and how often should we repack? Thinking definitely after every race. Looking for high quality, high temp racing grease. Money is basically no object when it comes to this, we just want it to last.

-What brand bearing would you recommend? We have been unable to find SKFs. What design bearing? Is there something better than the dual roller bearings? That is all we can seem to find.

-Is there a knuckle upgrade we can do that has a bigger wheel bearing to spread out the load of racing and perhaps last longer? We have toasted wheel bearings in each of the last 3 races. Ones that were new at the beginning of the race.

Thanks for the suggestions!

 

I am at a loss for explaining why they are failing. I have done 12 to 24 hour races and 17 years of racing various civics and del sols without seeing a bearing fail. Granted, I change the hubs/bearings once season after maybe 30 yours racing. My first thought is to wonder whether there is enough brake cooling. Grease is grease unless it turns to carbon due to high hub temps. Something bad about Rovals is that you haul *** on the oval and usually stomp on the brakes to a 55 mph turn into the infield. And if its Daytona, they gove you a bonus chicane in the back straight. If you don't have brake ducts, maybe that is something that you could look at.

I don't think that your stock bearings should fail, but if they are, improve cooling. You could look at the del sol/integra ./hubs and bearings which are larger. problem is though I doubt you could machine the upright to make them fit a 1990 upright + you would probably have to change the outer CV.

 

We were having similar issues with our CV's on our GS Camaro. We kept the stock axle but refilled the boots with some super grease that is apparently REALLY expensive. Totally worth it though. I guess the coating abilities are much better (even with a torn boot the CV is still lubricated) and its heat capabilities are many times better than the factory stuff. I assume it would also work to your advantage in a wheel bearing if it works that well on a CV. I can try to get the name of it for you if you like.

 

A name would be great. And I think the cooling suggestion is probably valid. We have brake ducts but they could be better engineered.

I might see if i can use integra uprights as well.

 

We do the same on our ITS GSR. I also vent the boots. Has made a big difference in terms of CV life. I have not had any wheel bearing issues. We use Honda OEM from HPD. They have easily lasted more then 1 season though we try to change the fronts out yearly. Small insurance.

 

Up grade to DA integra uprights. They use the bigger bearing, repack with a high quality racing moly grease, torque the spindle nut to a higher torque than the factory recommends and get airflow to the center of the spindle to keep the temps down.

 

I have had good success with mobil 1 grease for CV's. However for wheel bearings, I just use the stock honda bearings and grease. My belief is that if they are failing, its because the brakes are getting them too hot. Ps, it doesn't hurt to overtorque them.

 

Does anyone know if roller bearings are readily available for integras?

 

Increasing preload seems like it would increase friction. And at higher temperatures you're only going increase this loading due to expansion? I am actually asking a guy at work who works with the wheel bearing group here (*** bearings). I'm curious about this problem and will post again when I get an answer.

I also had my internship at SKF, I'm sure they have an application for your car and I say it's worth trying. Or you could consult their racing division to see what type of greases they run on the stock cars. (they supply to RCR racing in nascar). I have a contact I can dig up if you want to pursue this further.

Best of luck!

 

VTECIntegra9, I'd love this information and any contacts you can give me. I'm PMing you my email address as I don't check this board too often.

Thank you!!

 

I don't have the bearing/ hub assy in front of me but from what I recall, Tightning the cv nut does not increase bearing load or preload. Its a ball bearing with a split race. By keeping things tight, the race doesn't open up. causing problems.

 

ps, lets go back to the root cause.

1. are you using oem honda bearings? - When I got my CRX in the 90's, I raced a set of bearing on tool steel hubs for about 60 racing hours over several years. My experience was that they hub always outlived the bearing. Of 15 years with these cars, I just haven't seen oem ones fail. If you are not using OEM bearings, I suggest looking at OEM bearings first.

2. When the bearings fail, is the grease coked up? If the bearing grease is solidifying, I think you have a heat problem.

I am not rulling out that we have reached some design limit cause by better brakes, better tires, and maybe Honda has changed vendors/design or grease, so I am not ruling out the current bearings having problems, but they sure haven't had problems in the past.

 

I'm not sure about this. I think you can actually preload them. I think the split is such that it never comes completely together, even when torqued.

We have tried OEM bearings, Timken Bearings, National bearings, and cheapies. I probably will use OEM only going forward. using OEM parts has solved several of our previous problems (thermostat being one)

Its quite possible we have a heat problem. I will both work on addressing that, but I'd also like to find some grease that can handle a higher temp range for a bit more of a safety buffer. I gotta think some of these bearings don't have the best possible grease in them. I've also been packing them with parts store grease.

 

I would try Mobil 1 grease.

 

OEM bearings are NACHI. You don't have to go to the Stealership to find them FYI.

 

I purchased oem front bearings for dc2 and they are NTN

 

All of the good name bearings are of decent quality. SKF, Nachi, NTN, Timken, are all good bearings. I think there are issues with not enough cooling and not having a big enough bearing for the conditions.

Upgrade the spindle to a bigger bearing and hub and you problems should go away. You can't over torque the bearing. The inner races will not allow it to compress anymore than the design requires. But it will help keep it from opening up under racing stresses. You should also replace the hubs with new Honda parts to ensure that you don't have a cracked or failing hub. You could have them magnafluxed to check for cracks or potential failure points. A failing hub could torque properly and yet yield enough to allow bearing failure.

 

When you say 'upgrade the spindle for a bigger bearing' - do you mean modify the spindle to accept a bigger bearing? or run a different spindle altogether?

I'll definitely be investing in some new or newer hubs and having them looked at/tested/reinforced?

 

regardless of manufacture (they do change even for "OEM), are you repacking your bearings before installing them?

you really ought to be. if youre skipping this step, youre not getting the most out of your bearings.

 

DA integra Spindles are a bolt on upgrade for your car. It uses the much bigger wheel bearing and hub. You are better off upgrading.

 

No, and please elaborate.

Are you repacking for longevity or for lower rolling resistance? I've met people who do it for both. 1 like his bearings to last for years and the other replaced his every 3 weekends but claimed he went much faster.

I just put in the OEM (Nachi, and yes NTN), and always end up replacing the hub/bearing assembly before the bearing is toast anyway.

 

the grease in OEM bearings is not meant to reach the temps for racing.

replace for longevity. dont over pack it either. that increases rolling resistance. sure theres lots of opinions on this, but regardless, OEM grease is not ideal for racing application.

its a simple process of opening the bearing. not difficult at all and can be put back together just like new. no damage to seals. nowadays, the "oem" bearing comes with a different seal on the inside. so its not like the "oem" bearing is the same anymore.

ymmv

some old/new info on the change of bearings. be sure to click on the second link in that thread for the full story.
https://honda-tech.com/forums/honda-crx-ef-civic-1988-1991-3/anyone-buy-oem-front-wheel-bearing-lately-1371753/

 

I recently re-packed a friends oem bearings with amsoil grease for his ITB car. I cant remember the specifics on the grease but so far so good.

I will be doing this myself before next years season.

 

Tyson, I will definitely be repacking, any tips on what grease to use? I repacked the last set that failed, but it was just normal parts store grease, probably not sufficient for racing.

Edit, the Redline grease gets some good reviews, as does this: http://www.allraceoil.com/neohp800bearing.html

Supposed to be good to 800 degrees F! Might have to give it a try.

 

Also, Tyson (and others) are there still people that sell hardened hubs? Where can I get a set?