Suspension & Brakes Theory, alignment, spring rates....

99 Si - Shocks vs Coilovers

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Old Aug 30, 2011 | 06:40 PM
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Icon2 99 Si - Shocks vs Coilovers

Yes, the title says it all.

Instead of learning the hard way I would much rather ask for some guidance from the much more seasons members of HT.

OK, I'm running on OEM everything so far, minor tweaks here and there but that's it.

I'm looking for recommendations and suggestions for brands you have used/love/hate along with part numbers (If you can).

Also, lets say I do end up choosing a Shock / spring kit from Skunk2, Eibach or KYB, am I able to use the OEM mounting, top plate and whatnot?
Should I look at replacing them considering the age at this point?
Should I look at new LCA's as well? Obviously it depends on the age/wear of the bushings, I already know I have one of the two linkage bars (thingys that attach to the rear sway bar) to replace.

Any suggestions/hints/remarks/comments/flames are welcome...
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Old Aug 30, 2011 | 07:36 PM
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Default Re: 99 Si - Shocks vs Coilovers

Koni/GC is a very popular setup, and for a good reason.

What is your budget? What are the plans for the vehicle? DD or fun?

Stay away from Skunk2 and KYB for now. The AGX isn't a horrible shock, but you can do much better.
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Old Aug 30, 2011 | 07:39 PM
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Default Re: 99 Si - Shocks vs Coilovers

Originally Posted by solbrothers
ground control / koni setup. no need for top hats because they don't do anything for the moderately lowered.

lower control arms are a waste of money. if anything, get new OEM or poly bushings for your OEM arms.
I was thinking the same thing about the LCA's, mostly glitz for the under side of your car...
As for replacing the bushings, Nothing ever is as simple as popping out the old one and popping in the new one, do I have to press them out?
I've been using Bill Kay's website for wonderful exploded diagrams... I'm looking at #13 from here => http://goo.gl/Aqh7H judging by the way the LCA's are setup, I'm going to need six of them? three per LCA?


Originally Posted by 98civdx
Koni/GC is a very popular setup, and for a good reason.
What is your budget? What are the plans for the vehicle? DD or fun?
Stay away from Skunk2 and KYB for now. The AGX isn't a horrible shock, but you can do much better.
Well, I'm looking to keep it reasonable... 500-1000 for now, if going over means a huge jump in life/perf, I'm not against it. After all, this is my DD; I'm thinking of getting a beater and moving this into the garage for tweaking and kicking the **** out of the beater for my 80mi drive round trip to work and back...
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Old Aug 30, 2011 | 07:44 PM
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Default Re: 99 Si - Shocks vs Coilovers

A shop press would be easier. But there are other ways around it. Burn the bushing the cut the metal sleeve. Energy suspension bushing kit might be a good start.
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Old Aug 30, 2011 | 07:53 PM
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Default Re: 99 Si - Shocks vs Coilovers

Originally Posted by solbrothers
$800 for ground control / koni (or $1000 with top hats which allow you to slam your car with much less risk of bottoming out the shocks)
See, I don't really want to lower this thing much, matter of fact, you and 99civicdx were having this discussion here (http://goo.gl/1ZFgU)

I'm considering just going with a good set of sport shocks with an OE replacement set of springs and calling it a day... then again, I'm not sure there would be much of a benefit to that over OEM and keeping it simple.
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Old Aug 30, 2011 | 08:01 PM
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Default Re: 99 Si - Shocks vs Coilovers

It rides like hell, sounds like **** and overall is frustrating.
Since I bought the car about a year ago I've noticed a steep decline in the quality of ride even with new tires and numerous other adjustments.
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Old Aug 30, 2011 | 08:06 PM
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Default Re: 99 Si - Shocks vs Coilovers

I'll look around and check it out.

I was mostly going to replace from the bushings up if possible.
I've been working on things here and there on this car, I just completed a minor brake rebuild last weekend, three warped rotors and cheap pads replaced.
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Old Aug 30, 2011 | 08:45 PM
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Default Re: 99 Si - Shocks vs Coilovers

Buy the beater!!!! This is what I need to do.

there's noithing wrong with a nice set of lowering springs and a quality set of shocks, to
"freshin" up the car.


Take a look at PIC/Hardrace bushings. Might as well go threw it, while your under there.
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Old Aug 30, 2011 | 08:59 PM
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Default Re: 99 Si - Shocks vs Coilovers

Originally Posted by solbrothers
yeah but quality shocks and nice lowering springs are $6-800. might as well go progress coilovers or koni / ground control with lifetime warranty
This can be true, but, take a look at the Eibach sport kit. Sitting at about $450

I'd rather go with Koni/gc, AMR. Manily becuase I like being able to adjust my height as I please.
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Old Sep 2, 2011 | 08:32 PM
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Default Re: 99 Si - Shocks vs Coilovers

Awesome...
I'm looking at Koni for the replacement shocks, any insight on how to pick good springs?

Sorry for some of the stupid questions, I'm ... new at this.
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Old Sep 3, 2011 | 07:20 AM
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Default Re: 99 Si - Shocks vs Coilovers

Originally Posted by purgat0ry
Awesome...
I'm looking at Koni for the replacement shocks, any insight on how to pick good springs?

Sorry for some of the stupid questions, I'm ... new at this.
You don't need springs. Get the widely popular koni/GC and you can select rates you like, and adjust your height anytime.

Find THMotorsports in the sponsor marketplace. They'll hook you up. Best price anywhere and great service.
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Old Sep 3, 2011 | 02:49 PM
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Default Re: 99 Si - Shocks vs Coilovers

Forgive me for not being clear before, what do the different spring rates achieve for me?
Higher rates meaning higher I sit?

Found the thread by THMotorsports, I'm going to give them a buzz once I know what rates I'm after...
Keep in mind, I'm using this currently as a DD, and as others have put it here, weekend warrior driving like an idiot
I Don't want this thing 'slammed' as I think for the most part it looks like ****, but I wouldn't mind if it sat a wee bit lower.
I am sitting on stock rims/height as well...
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Old Sep 3, 2011 | 05:59 PM
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Default Re: 99 Si - Shocks vs Coilovers

Higher spring rates mean a stiffer ride/improved handling.
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Old Sep 3, 2011 | 06:56 PM
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Default Re: 99 Si - Shocks vs Coilovers

So in essence, if I shoot for something around a 400+ it wont be comfy at all but will handle like a demon?
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Old Sep 3, 2011 | 06:59 PM
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Default Re: 99 Si - Shocks vs Coilovers

Originally Posted by purgat0ry
So in essence, if I shoot for something around a 400+ it wont be comfy at all but will handle like a demon?
For a nice compromise in comfort and handling I've always recommended 450-550 front and 350-400 rear.

350 rear isn't "rough" but you'll definitely notice every bump in the road.
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Old Sep 3, 2011 | 07:09 PM
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Default Re: 99 Si - Shocks vs Coilovers

So a 290/350 is more of a just street oriented with MINOR gains in handling
where is 350/380 is sacrificing some comfort for handling
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Old Sep 3, 2011 | 07:13 PM
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Default Re: 99 Si - Shocks vs Coilovers

Rear rates are much more of an effect on "ride comfort" in comparison to front rates.

350 or 380 rear isn't necessarily going to be better than the other, in fact they'll probably perform about the same.

350 Front is awfully soft. I track mine, so I more easily get that impression. But for daily driving, and if you're lowering 2" I'd be a lot happier with 450 instead of 350. It's too soft for backing out of driveways even sometimes. My undercarriage will "bounce" on the dip and slam my oil pan or something sometimes. A stiffer front rate would alleviate that.

Getting swaybars is a phenomenal upgrade as well if you don't have those.
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Old Sep 3, 2011 | 07:29 PM
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Default Re: 99 Si - Shocks vs Coilovers

Ok
So in comparison, what are the typical OE rates then? Or are those in a league of their own?

In short, I should be looking for something in the 450-550 in the front and 380's in the back?

**EDIT**
After reading the links in your sig, I feel a bit stupid now

I think I'm going to take some of your advice with spring rates.

Now about the sway bars, doesn't the 99 SI come with a sway bar from factory?
I know I have some minor repairs to make to the linkage assembly but that should be it

Last edited by purgat0ry; Sep 3, 2011 at 07:36 PM. Reason: I'm an idiot :)
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Old Sep 3, 2011 | 07:35 PM
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Default Re: 99 Si - Shocks vs Coilovers

OE rates are 165lbs front and 80lbs rear.
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Old Sep 3, 2011 | 07:44 PM
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Default Re: 99 Si - Shocks vs Coilovers

450F 350R is not a bad setup at all, in fact, it's the spring rates I will most likely end up going with.

I currently run 350's in rear, and you will notice bumps, and uneven pavent, drops, etc a lot more then the stock car. This is just one of the trade off's, however, it's not horrible, back breaking, or anything. My dad hates it, but, he's old. lol

450F is the lowest for a mildly lowered car I would ever go. (mild to me is around 2.5")
The 350F is simply too soft.
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Old Sep 3, 2011 | 07:47 PM
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Default Re: 99 Si - Shocks vs Coilovers

I think I'm going to take some of your advice with spring rates.

Now about the sway bars, doesn't the 99 SI come with a sway bar from factory?
I know I have some minor repairs to make to the linkage assembly but that should be it
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Old Sep 3, 2011 | 07:50 PM
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Default Re: 99 Si - Shocks vs Coilovers

Originally Posted by 98civdx
450F 350R is not a bad setup at all, in fact, it's the spring rates I will most likely end up going with. ...
450F is the lowest for a mildly lowered car I would ever go. (mild to me is around 2.5").
So what kind of drop rates can you expect out of that setup then?
Obviously it depends some on the setup you are using, but there is some average to it I'm sure...
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Old Sep 3, 2011 | 07:51 PM
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Default Re: 99 Si - Shocks vs Coilovers

Yes it does, 26mm front, 13mm rear. (some information has been found to say either the 99 or the 2000 had a 14mm, although, I have never seen one). I have sway bars off a 2000 si, 13mm bushings fit.
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Old Sep 3, 2011 | 07:53 PM
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Default Re: 99 Si - Shocks vs Coilovers

Originally Posted by purgat0ry
So what kind of drop rates can you expect out of that setup then?
Obviously it depends some on the setup you are using, but there is some average to it I'm sure...
What do you mean? Spring rates don't really have an affect on the amount you can drop the car.

Koni/gc can you pretty low. I can almost tuck lip in the rear with my skunk2's.

If you really want to go low, you need to be looking in the 500-550 range for the front.

with the 450's, I would like to say you could do 3'' without much of a problem, assuming you can keep the car out of large pot holes.
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Old Sep 3, 2011 | 07:53 PM
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Default Re: 99 Si - Shocks vs Coilovers

Makes sense, I forgot the Koni/GC setup is adjustable... Sorry I'm used to working in absolutes.
I really don't want a low car, the roads around here suck.
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