I have a 95 honda del sol b16

so i just recently purchased a flex pipe with a cat, with a catback exhaust onto a borla muffler. I was at the shop and i talked to a guy named brett who talked to me about what i needed for the car. the original arrangement for my car was a flex pipe and new (magnaflow high flow cat) to a cat back exhaust on a mangaflow muffer. the catback is just piping btw.

hey gave me a price which was 650 plus tax so 680 total.

I told him ok and i will be back this saturday to get my set up done.

i come back saturday and he wasnt there but this other dude was there and his name is mario. i talked to mario about my privious arangement with brett and my whole set up. he said ok and he will have those parts installed on my car in a couple of hours and they will give me a call.

i went back to the shop and they weren't done yet after 5 hours and since mario i guess felt bad he said he upgraded me from a magna flow to a borla(no extra cost). i was kinda excited because i slightly had an idea that borla was better.

when everthing came out it sounded very very nice! i was glad i got upgraded.

afterwards i noticed 2 things that wasnt right after i got back my car.

1. MY acceleration decreased. it is not as responsive on low rpms from the beginning until i hit vtec or about 3,500-4,000 rpms and above. after around 4,000 rpms i think it was faster then b4. but im not sure if it only feels faster because my acceleration is slower and thus making it feel faster when on high rpms if that makes sense.

2. they never gave me a magnaflow hiflow cat converter. they gave me a differnt brand and i dont believe its hi flow. i noticed it looked different when i got home since i took pictures.
heres what a magnaflow hi flow looks like

http://www.amazon.com/Magnaflow-3630...530884&sr=8-39

now here is the one they gave me.

http://www.converterwarehouse.com/un...roductID=52376

ok so let me backtrack a little.

I use to have a regular system that was all weird. i have no idea what kinda cat i had and my piping was mixed from 2 in to 2 and a quarter on some parts connected to a regular muffler.

now they upgraded my exhaust to a 2 1/4 catback and it was suppose to increase airflow and increase my hp and not decrease it like it did.

My questions are. why did they not give me a magnaflow hi flow cat like we discussed. is it because the magnaflow is 2 in instead of 2 1/4? so they needed to give me the other one since the other one is 2 1/4? which one i better? is the 2 1/4 cat non hi flow better then the magnaflow hi flow 2 in cat with my 2 1/4 piping? Will there be any difference?

I need to know what i can do about this. i want to discuss it with them but i feel like they are going to rip me off. i need advice, knowledge and opinion on this so they dont take advantage of me.

also why did my hp decrease instead of increase?

heres some pictures

 

Did you get anything in writing BEFORE you took it in? If not you have only the recourse of appealing to the manager/owner of the shop. It looks like they substituted cheaper product and charged you the same price.

How do you figure you were supposed to GAIN horsepower? And how much did you think you were SUPPOSED to gain? You probably lost that low-end because you essentially shifted the power band somewhere else with that mismatched exhaust setup. For $650 you could have gotten a decent catback system with cash left over and not that overwelded restrictive piece of work you have there. You could have picked up a K-teller piping kit for less than that.
http://store.kteller.com/kteller/kte.../i-414423.aspx

Or the Yonaka catback in teh Marketplace.
https://honda-tech.com/forums/performance-45/yonaka-catback-exhaust-apexi-ws2-style-sound-clip-stock-2872959/
and add a cat.

 

I just noticed that cat is totally in the wrong place. Did you randomly pick these guys out of the phone book?

 

wow what a hideous install no use of reducers or anything just fill the gap with weld lol.... id def go back and want my old stuff back if its gonna look like that. they make bolt in hi-flow cats at randomtechnology.com.

 

should of asked around about whoever you went to. I'd never recommend these guys if i went to them.
especially for that money you could have got a legit exhaust with no hassle like this.
all you can really do is find reciept or paperwork showing you didnt get the right parts installed.

 

That loss of low power feel, is normal. Is the piping 2 1/4?

Aftermarket exhausts for honda, do not real produce power, unless you have a turbo application, header and CAI.

Is it loud? looks like no resonator either? Is that piping Staninless or aluminized steel?

 

heres the thing, i live in california. i really wanted the yonaka in the beginning and was thinking about doing it illegally with or without a cat. But when i went to this shop which has amazing ratings on yelp. 48 reviews all 4 to 5 stars and like 2, 3 stars. well they gave me a good price. reason being is because. i needed a new cat. magnaflow cat would of costed 150 on amazon. catback exhaust would of costed 500 atleast if its california legal unless its just pipping then i dont know how much it would cost. and they installed a flex pipe which i found online to be around 50 bucks.

for them this is how they priced it. 400 for catback exhaust to a magnaflow muffler. 200 for magnaflow cat converter hi flow. and 125 for flex pipe thats including installation. thats 725. but since im getting all that they said it will be 350 for catback 200 for cat converter and 100 for flex pipe installation included. thats 650 plus tax. which was another 30 bux. so it came out to be 680.

At the time it was a great deal because a cat back exhaust without install would of costed me atleast 500 because it is california legal. the maganaflow cat converter direct fit that i wanted was 190. and a flex pipe was 50. so i was like i might as well pay 650 for this set up.

They had amazing customer service over there. i can see why yelp said they were good. they were on top of there game. they also upgraded me from a magnaflow to a borla which in the end sounded amazing. better then i expected.

so after that day i noticed something was weird. i just had 2 problems.

1. i didnt get my magnaflow hi flow cat.

2. i lost power.

Does any1 know why they would give me that cat instead of the magnaflow? is it because they just ripped me off or is it because that magnaflow is a 2 1/4 piping so it would fit better? i really need to know so i can either complain and get my magnaflow or not.

 

i do have on there business card writing of what setup i was suppose to receive b4 i agreed. but i have to look for it. but heres the problems. i already signed the paper at the end which was the receipt. in this receipt i noticed on the bottem it says I authorized everything was correct. parts and labor. so with that signature i think im screwed.

i thoguht i was suppose to gain hp because i did research and every place tells u, you will gain hp if u get a new catback exhaust from stock. as long as u get the right piping size ur hp will increase. i know it wasnt by much but maybe 5 max.

btw i forgot to mention i live in california. so the yonaka wouldnt apply for me. i dont know about the j piping. but at the time i only thought i could buy a name brand catback exhaust. i didnt know anything about piping. i wish i did. but i still dont know if it would be california legal

 

what is a reducer?

 

the sound is normaly loud. it isnt soft or too loud. its pretty good. heres the thing tho. they told me i have metal to metal contact. so inside the car it drones esp. on high rpms. my old exhaust does that too. but this one is barely barable. they said its prob my engine mounts. i know thats not there fault. i need to get that fixed to see how much better my car will sound internally. but externally it sounds great.

there isnt a resonator. they said there trying to save me money so they wont install a resonator or else it would be another 80 bucks. if i want one i can always go back.

as for the piping. i have no idea if its stainless steal or aluminized. but im pretty sure its aluminized but i also heard its not that big of a difference. dont quote me on that tho. i live in california. no snow and it barely rains. so no salt to eat up my piping. so i think it doesnt matter too much if its stainless steal or aluminized. but i do know stainless is better and more durable

 

Amazon sometimes uses stock photos, not necessarily a photo of the actual item. Besides, all high flow cars are poo and burn out faster than stock. But, it being on there is the only important thing. Since you needed a new one, if your old one was burn out, you need to fix whatever was burning the old one out.

I'm not sure how an exhaust fabricated at a shop in Cali is Cali legal, and one out of state isn't. I'm from Illinois though, so I don't know emissions stuff. I thought as long as there's a cat and engine related electronics and such, it'd be legal.

https://honda-tech.com/forums/honda-civic-del-sol-1992-2000-1/california-rules-about-exhaust-help-2959164/
That's a thread where you asked about the Yonaka and someone said it IS legal.

Beyond that, yes stainless is more durable. But if you live away from the coast, it should work either way.

 

the reason why i needed a new cat was because mine kept breaking due to age and bad welding jobs. my whole exhaust was breaking because of rust spots and bad welding jobs. im a post a pic for u guys to see.

and no yonaka is not legal in california. ive checked on yahoo. found couple of post saying it wasnt legal. i could be wrong but i foudn the info on the internet. besides yonaka is a knock off brand. even the more legit brands in cali arnt legal. in fact. a shitload of cats in cali arnt legal. its funny when i was looking for a cat converter. most of them say 49 state legal. non carb compliment. not legal or sale in cali. it has to be carb compliment.

heres 1 dude saying he got a email from yonaka saying its not cali legal
http://www.clubintegra.com/board/sho...t=57593&page=3
about the 10th post down.

i use to live in chicago. i didnt really have a project car at the time so i didnt know any of the rules. but since i have a project car now, i found out almost everything is illegal in california. (mods) u have very little options of mods you can do for ur car. and there usualy pricey if there legal. so it really sucks living in cali because a lot of stuff are illegal. i think were the most strictest state out of united states.

also i wanted to mention. i remember one dude saying why are most catback exhaust illegal in cali? because the exhaust doesnt really emit much chemicals. if u have a cat the cat back exhaust woundnt really add on any more chemicals. so why would it be illegal in cali? if thats true then that is very questionable

ok well i tried posting the pictures but theres no option to post the pictures straight from ur computer. so i had to upload it to facebook.

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?s...8809.726590000

thats the album. hopefully u guys can see it.

heres 1 pictures from that album

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fb...6590000&type=1

thats my old exhaust. that thing broke on my 3 times. the first time part of the cat completely disconnected. 2nd time my exhaust in the middle came off and was dragging on the highway. i dont think i got a picture of that. 3rd time it was the same spot on the cat cuase they welded it bad

forgot to mention. i know amazon uses stock photos. but ive looked at the magnaflow thru many places like the mangaflow website. i know what it looks like. on top of that. i have the model number of the cat the muffler shop gave me. its kinda on the receipt and the number is on the cat in the picture. it took me a while to find it but everything came up when i put the numbers in. its a catco brand and i know which exact one it is too.

whats so bad about hi flow cats? wouldnt a high flow cat help with the airflow helping with my speed a tad bit? besides i still think the hi flow is better then the regular. it should be. more benefits

 

Can someone confirm? Are catbacks subject to CALI laws. Everything I've read said that it's all about sound levels when it comes to the (catback) exhaust. I'm not talking about your cat.
Here is the thread you started last month where someone IN Cali says he runs it with no issues. I've not found any info stating otherwise.
https://honda-tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2959164

And I found this.
27151. (a) No person shall modify the exhaust system of a motor
vehicle in a manner which will amplify or increase the noise emitted
by the motor of the vehicle so that the vehicle is not in compliance
with the provisions of Section 27150 or exceeds the noise limits
established for the type of vehicle in Article 2.5 (commencing with
Section 27200). No person shall operate a motor vehicle with an
exhaust system so modified.
(b) For the purposes of exhaust systems installed on motor
vehicles with a manufacturer's gross vehicle weight rating of less
than 6,000 pounds, other than motorcycles, a sound level of 95 dbA or
less, when tested in accordance with Society of Automotive Engineers
Standard J1169 May 1998, complies with this section. Motor vehicle
exhaust systems or parts thereof include, but are not limited to,
nonoriginal exhaust equipment.

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/calaw.html

 

So you have drone at higher rpms? Sometimes you can get used the drone, if not have the resonator installed that should help.

As for power loss or the feeling of loss this is normal. These exhausts are for looks and sound not power, for a reg non turbo.

In order to have it feel like it did you need small diameter piping much less than 2 1/4. and smaller diamter muffer inlet.

As for the Cat, I hope it is a 3 way, you want to get by emissions, as for magnaflow cats, I doubt you will feel anything anyway.

 

is that a one piece exhaust? lol

 

FYI, the sale and installation of hi-flow catalytic converters is now ILLEGAL in the state of California. Unless the shop wants to be fined, shut down, etc. I doubt that that is a hi-flow cat. In fact, Magnaflow does not even ship these parts to retailers in California anymore.


Why did you even need a flex pipe? And why did they charge you $175 for one?

Let this be a learning experience

 

If you remove the flex joint between the A and B pipes, you should have a flex pipe. Otherwise you have one solid piece from the manifold all the way to the muffler. Since the motor rocks a bit, you need it to be able to flex just a little.

When I built my down pipe, I got a flex pipe for like $30 from Autozone.

I'm not sure I'd say these are only for looks. They're quiet, but they still have a straight through muffler that's little more than an oversized glass pack.

 

Illinois has the same "shall not modify the exhaust in any way as to amplify..." nonsense. I had the real WS2 on my hatch, never had an issue. I have the Yonaka on my sedan, no issues. However, I know some people have been pulled over with a WS2, though people have been pulled over with stock exhaust.

I don't see any difference between a bolt on exhaust and one built by a shop in terms of legality. Both will be oversized piping and a louder than stock muffler. And at least a bolt on kit usually has a resonator to help with some of the drone. Is there some law stating that anything built by a shop is automatically legal? Would them cutting and rewelding a piece of a kit back together constitute it being built?

 

How is the quality of the Yonaka, they are pretty cheap for SS.

How is the sound, and drone?

I noticed they have a resonator.

 

The Yonakas all seem to be on backorder. Might be indicative of their popularity. Sound clips from Youtube might help you evaluate the sound quality.

 

So far my Yonaka is fine. All the mount locations are in the right spot. I can't comment on the cat to B pipe fit, as I made a downpipe with this exhaust in place. It does have slots instead of just holes for the catalytic converter to bolt to, I assume it's some sort of universal fit thing for different size cats. The welds look good, it's all TIG welded. It shipped with what looked like grade 5 or grade 8 hardware and some kind of cheap eBay looking gaskets.

The sound is similar to an Apexi WS2. I have to check again, but I think the WS2 is a chamber muffler. This one is a straight through muffler. This is still quiet though.

They do indeed have a resonator. It's about 4" by maybe 16-18".

For what it is, if you don't want to modify anything, I think it's a good deal. I just suggest installing it from back to front and leave all the bolts loose, get it exactly lined up and tighten it as you go. And since it is T-304 and can rust a little, high temperature paint wouldn't be a terrible idea, though exhausts tend to rust from the inside out due to condensation and not getting the exhaust hot enough to burn off water from the exhaust.

 

How is the drone on the highway?

 

ok i just did some research online about catback exhaust. now im kinda mad. i had 1 person tell me most catback exhaust are illegal in california and he told me the greddy/trust exhaust was one of my few options. then i talked to a guy at a shop over the phone about catback exhaust. he didnt mention much but he did say my options are limited and if i want it to be california legal its going to cost atleast 500 bucks.

with that **** put into my mind i thought mostly all catback exhaust are illegal. the yonaka i wanted someone said they emailed the company and the company said yonaka is not legal in the state of california. i checked out ebay, and email the company and asked if there nameless catback exhaust was legal in california. they told me it was not legal. i know other mods has to be c.a.r.b. legal like intakes and stuff. i know cats are also complicated too when it comes to california legal. with the lack of knoweledge and bad guided information i thought california had some rules about catback exhaust when its mainly just the under the 95db ratio.

but with that bein said since cali catback exhaust has to be 95db ratio that would prob rule out most catback exhaust im assuming.

it also questiions me why someone said the yonaka is not california legal when he said he got a response in email form from the company. and why that ebay catback exhaust was not california legal. i also had 2 exhaust from this forum. some dude was selling wp2 replica and a generic brand telling me it was not california legal. so now im slightly confused on what is california legal and what are the rules to it. cuz so far i foudn the under the 95 db rule. but then if thats true then why were soo many of these exhaust illegal in california?

if i knew this information i would of just gotten the yonaka. it is a lot cheaper and sounds great.



also i dont know if this applies to catback exhaust but i found this information

Can I legally replace an emissions sensitive part on my car with an aftermarket product?

In the state of California, it is not legal to replace an emissions sensitive device without the replacement part having an exemption from CARB. Although replacing a particular device might have no apparent effect on the emissions, and the car might even pass a tail pipe "smog-check", the replacement part is still not considered emissions legal. In many cases, the mandatory visual inspection of the vehicle prior to an official state required smog-check may result in immediate failure of the test if a non-exempt part is identified.

A part that has been issued a CARB exemption has been subjected to strict laboratory testing as required by CARB in order to demonstrate that the replacement part will not increase emissions. (These tests are NOT the same as the "smog check" test and often require "cold start" testing procedures in order to test the efficiency of the emissions system during the initial seconds of the start-up cycle.) A part that has successfully passed these tests will be appointed an Executive Order number and will be listed on the CARB website for reference. Every Executive Order part or modification has an assigned number that can be verified by Smog Check stations, BAR Referee stations, or by the ARB. This number should be displayed on or near the emissions sensitive part for reference by a smog check technician.

For a database listing of current exempt parts, visit:
http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermk...es/amquery.php





What does it mean when an aftermarket product is advertised as "CARB Exempt" or "50 State Legal"?

Although a part may be advertised as "50 State Legal", this may be more of a marketing statement than reality. Unless an emissions sensitive part has been issued an Executive Order number by CARB, or an EPA exemption, FOR THAT SPECIFIC VEHICLE OR ENGINE CLASSIFICATION, the part is NOT legal for street use. Period, end of statement! If you must have a CARB exempt component for your vehicle, obtain the exemption number from the manufacturer prior to your purchase and verify the application status at the CARB link above.

Parts that are typically appointed CARB exemptions include: headers, air filter/intakes, turbo kits, and supercharger kits. Parts that are typically not eligible for a CARB exemption include, but are not limited to: replacement catalytic converters, downpipes or headers that remove or relocate a catalytic converter, and performance carburetor kits. Contact the manufacturer of a product that you are considering purchasing for details regarding that specific component.

An exhaust system that is installed AFTER the catalytic converter is considered a "cat-back" system and is considered emissions legal. (Sound level restrictions may be an issue in your state, check with the exhaust manufacturer or you local authorities for more information.)


this is the site http://www.racingbeat.com/mazda/perf...emissions.html

 

yea i got drones on highways but thats mainly because of my aftermarket engine mounts. the shop told me i had metal to metal contact somewhere. they believe its the engine mounts and so do i. i need to get that fixed. when i get it fixed and if the noise is still bad thats when im a decide on a resonator.

nope not a one piece exhaust.

they told me the flex pipe will help with my vibration noise and other things i forgot. but i did the research and there are a good amount of benefits for the flex pipe. the flex pipe should make the exhaust last longer because it flexes with ur exhaust so ur exhaust dont just break all of a sudden due to bumps etc. also like i said it helps with vibration which my car drones with vibration due to my engine mounts. so i thought it will help.

at the shop it was 125 but with my package deal it was only 100 more.

and hiflow cats are legal in california. they even state it on the magnaflow website. magnaflow is prob one of the few or the only hiflow cats that are legal in cali. b4 it wasnt legal but now it is. go check it. i just did. and like i said magnaflow states it to be legal

 

Exhaust companies blow. I will never go to an "exhaust" only shop unless it is under the table, aka, under 100 bucks. All their welds are horrible and will break. Funny thing is they say the "droning" and "vibration" does it but the only reason that happens is because they make it one BIG piece w/ a weld to your header and a weld to your muffler. Good luck. I've had 3 on my daily with a thermal muffler. I switched to stock after that.