Alright guys here's the dillio.
I just installed a JDM vtec D15b along with a JDM S20 hydro tranny in my 91 wagovan. I put on a brand new Competition 6 puck sprung clutch kit and used the Innovative cable to hydro conversion kit. The problem is I can't get the tranny into gear. It goes into gear fine while car is off but wont go into gear while car is on. Car jumps forward when started in first gear while clutch pedal all the way down. So far, I've bled the hell out of the system until zero air is present and confirmed that the slave is working as it should with about 3/4" of travel and even replaced the slave cylinder with a new one just in case. I also tried bending the fork outward to give the slave piston more travel to no avail. There isnt any leakage in the line or from either cylinders. Sounds to me like maybe the throwout bearing slipped off or the pressure plate is binding somehow?? I dont have much experience with hydro transmissions but I believe I've covered all the bases thus far.
Any thoughts or tips before I pull the tranny tomorrow? Any help is appreciated guys, thanks in advance!

Everyone likes pics right...

 

No replies? Alright well here's an update.
I pulled the tranny today and visually inspected everything just to make sure. Nothing seemed out of the ordinary. The clutch seemed fine so the only thing i did was grease up the little round base where the shift fork sits but other than that everything seemed ok. I went ahead and put everything back together making sure everything was perfect. Bled the hydraulic system thoroughly, made sure clutch was perfectly aligned and snug up against the flywheel, torqued the pressure plate to factory specs, put in axles carefully...the works.
I went and started the car again...same ****. Will not go into gear while car is on, only while off. So while the car was still on jackstands, I started the damn thing in first gear, gave it gas then shifted into second, third, forth then fifth. Doing this gave me some hope so I put the wheels and bumper back on and took it for a spin around the block. Once again i started the car in first and was able to shift through the gears with some difficulty. What i mean by that is the shifts werent smooth. I quickly realized that in order to get crisp, smooth shifts I had to double or triple pump the clutch. Pumping the clutch even allowed me to downshift as I was unable to downshift like i normally would.
The stupid thing is if I came to a complete stop, the car would die. If I coasted to a complete stop, gave it gas to keep it alive and put it in neutral, I could not go into gear anymore. I would have to shut down the car completely and start in first again. This got annoying real quick. Even so, I drove the car for approx 15 miles hoping to "break the clutch in" but the problems persisted.
Anyways, I'm hoping someone has some insight as to what might be going on here. Feel free to comment as I'm all out of ideas. Thanks for looking.

Thought I might add...
A buddy of mine just installed an identical clutch kit to mine today (Performance Clutch D16z6 6 puck sprung kit) and was experiencing similar if not identical problems as me. You guys think PC might have put out a bad batch? I know it's a long shot but you never know.

 

Did you adjust the clutch cable? You still have to set the disengagement height and such. Conversion kits like this generally suck btw, you would have been much better off with an '88 - '91 cable tranny, or one from an '86 - '89 Integra.

 

I thinking you might need to adjust the cable some more. If you can start it in gear then jack the car up put it in first gear and let the wheels spin. Push the clutch in and see if the wheels stop spining. If they dont adjust some more and keep going untill they do stop. Try this first.

 

I had the same Innovative kit in my wagon with a hydro B series swap and a ACT HD pressure plate and six puck unsprung clutch. I had similar issues with mine and the clutch pedal felt as stiff as it did with the Hasport mechanical conversion kit(super hard). After checking everything out I found out my pedal assembly bracket had broken due to the excessive clutch pedal effort required to actuate the clutch. This caused the clutch to not fully disengage and made shifting very difficult. You might want to take a peek at the pedal assembly and check for cracks around the clutch pedal pivot area specifically since this is a known weak point with all EF's.

I replaced the pedal assembly bracket and reinforced it by welding pieces of steel plates around the clutch pedal pivot arm. I also switched to the Sonem hydro conversion kit. Although the clutch still feels firm, it is significantly more manageable than with the Innovative kit.

You may also want to look into the Hush22 hydro conversion kit. This guy has put alot of R&D into his kit and it looks like a winner. Either way, stay away from conversion kits that still require the clutch cable as these will never work the same as a true hydraulic conversion. Good luck!

 

Hey I have the same clutch converter as you wat size braided line did you use to run from the slave cylinder to the actuator ? Nd where did you buy it from?

 

^^^If you are referring to me, I am running a -4 steel braided line. I bought the Sonem kit online from suja1motoring.com. Just to let you know ahead of time, I also added some reinforcement pieces to the Sonem kit to help stabilize it since it did have a tendency to want to pivot during actuation.
After adding the reinforcements the kit works pretty decent.

 

Yes i am thnks , Okay nd wat other parts did you use to reinforce tht cause I need to get th line as well?

 

I made some templates using cardboard to triangulate the right angles on the bracket to prevent possible long term fatigue/breaking. Then I traced those templates onto some 1/8" thick steel plates I bought from Home Depot and cut them out of the steel. Then I just went to my local muffler shop and had them weld the pieces in.

To stop the pivoting movement I welded a tab to the outer edge of the bracket and another tab to the brace tube that is behind the dashboard and is used to support the steering column. I then drilled two corresponding holes through both tabs and bolted them together. Both of these tabs were also made of 1/8" thick steel plate. This way it can still be removed if necessary.

While I was there I also added reinforcement tabs to the pedal assembly bracket itself, especially around the clutch pedal pivot area.

 

Thanks for the replies everyone. I was able to play with the cable adjustment settings and got the clutch to engage normally. This, along with further clutch break-in seemed to work for a while until the damn slave cylinder started leaking. It's a small leak and as long as i keep the reservoir from emptying completely it works ok but far from ideal. I'm gonna try and see if innovative will fix/replace it but I definately don't recommend this kit. I will probably buy the hush22 kit and sell this one. I would just use the stock DX tranny since im boosted, but that would mean i have to purchase another tranny mount and clutch. Def not an option since my clutch alone was $300.
Anyways, this kit is a piece of caca kids. Look elsewhere

 

Glad you got it working. I know I went through very similar headaches with my conversion so I can definitely relate. On a side note, what traction bar and radiator combo are you running on your wagon?

 

I wish I could say it's working, my headaches continue. Due to the small slave cylinder leak, I need to add tension to the clutch cable by turning the adjusting **** 4 or 5 revolutions. Otherwise it won't go in to gear, sometimes it will but very grindy and reverse is damn near impossible and makes an awful grinding noise if attempted.
As far as my traction bar, it's an innovative product as well. I have no issues with it and is definately better than my old ETD unit. Radiator is just an ebay half size dual core.

 

Hush 22 or Sonem kit for sure then.

 

Absolutely, especially after today's less than pleasant experience in dealing with Innovative. Here's what happened.
I called them up around 11am and told the receptionist/customer service that my cable/hydro kit was leaking. After about 5 mins of questions on her part, she transferred me to "Tim" in tech support whom I had to fill in and repeat myself about the situation. No big deal. So I explain the situation and Tim tells me that he's never had one of his conversion kits fail/leak on him and is unsure how to handle the situation. I inform him that upon searching for a fix online, I have stumbled upon several threads where other people are experiencing the same issues as me. Tim quickly back-tracks and admits "there may have been one or two other people experiencing leaking". I ask "why is this scenario any different than any other part you sell, afterall you offer a lifetime warranty on every item you sell." He explains how the kit uses a Wilwood master cylinder and would have to call them and deal with them to try warranty it. He says "he's pretty sure he can get them to warranty it"
At this point I'm thinking "WTF, why does that concern me? How is it my problem that Wilwood is your supplier, I didn't buy **** from them...i bought it from you."
He proceeds to tell me that I should send him pictures of the actuator and "he will see what he can do". I told him I didn't mind sending pictures, however I don't see how they will help considering the leak is located under the rubber boot that covers the pushrod...whatever, I agree to send them anyways. He said to call him as soon as I send them to continue the conversation.
So I take about 10 pictures and promptly upload/send them. By this time it's almost noon so I decide to wait to call after lunch. 1:30 rolls around and I decide to call...no anwser. 1:35, again, no answer. (I dealt with this company before when they sent me the wrong motor mounts three times so I know first hand that leaving a voicemail is utterly pointless)
By the time 2:30 rolled around I had literally called them 10 or 15 times. Each time no answer. I would have kept calling by I had a customer arrive and was busy for the remainder of the day. I will try again tomorrow and possibly try spoofing my number and see what happens. One thing I'm sure of is Innovative will never see another penny from me. If they don't take care of this properly I will literally drive to Cali and throw my mounts, traction bar and actuator through their ****ing windows. /end rant

 

So wouldn't a correct tranny just been a lot easier?

7 months later.....

 

That's pretty much what I told him 7 months ago.

For the price of the conversion kit you could have just bought the right trans, it's not like D-series trannys are worth much.

 

Not sure about the OP but in my case I already had a complete hydro LSVTEC swap out of my old EG. I had already spent a good amount of money to install a Quaife and 4.78 final drive in that hydro trans. Converting to hydraulic clutch in my wagon was my only real option. Also the availability and interchangeability of parts for the hydro trans also convinced me to go with the hydro conversion. Not to mention the faction that cables would consistently stretch and break when using performance pressure plates.

 

The OP just has a D-series trans, even it had an LSD it's still transferable into a cable case.

In your case other than the cable stretching issue a YS1 cable case would have taken care of all the other issues. Hydro guts drop right in it.

 

I agree. Unfortunately YS1 trannys are pretty scarce and pricey.

 

You can find them often enough around here. They came in all '92 - '93 5 speed integras (not just GS-Rs as some people seem to believe, GS-R models are geared differently and are difficult to find though) Anytime I saw one for sale they were $100 - $150

 

Lol I like how its now my fault somehow for not being able to foresee the issues related with this piece of crap conversion kit. The truth of the matter is I wanted to built this project car to my standards, with more recent technology in this case. The motor mounts in this car were shot and needed to be replaced anyhow so I opted to purchase a set from Innovative that would accommodate a hydro trans, specifically the S20 to match the D15b.
I have nothing against cable trannies, however they are becoming pretty scarce especially Si trannies. Another reason I opted for a hydro was for piece of mind that it would be (potentially) more mechanically sound vs a cable and would hold up to boost.
I know several people using this conversion kit without issues, why would I expect any different?

 

If you really want something tough try an '86 - '89 CG Integra transmission, much tougher than a regular D-series and it's got a built in handcuff

If you look online you'll find numerous threads like this one with people having issues with conversion kits, not just this one either.

 

I've not seen a cable to hydro conversion ever work smoothly.

Including the original HASport setups from 10+ years ago that were never marketed.

Two things I'm against

1) wacky conversion setups
2) auto to manual conversions

Almost every time it ends up being cheaper to either buy the right driveline or transmission.

IMHO a hydro tranny using a clutch cable only requires modifying the OEM clutch arm and making a bracket for the adjustment ****.

Only other way would be a better version of the Hush22 setup that someone has built, but still need the custom mounts for the trannys.

K.I.S.S. works 99% of the time