Track EG with k20 suspension advice
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Track EG with k20 suspension advice
New to front wheel drive but not to the track. I bought a gutted eg with a k20 and had itcon the track for the first time. Very peppy and rotates nice on turn in but feel it really lacks grip. I think my s2000 stays with the vettes and Porsches better in the corners and it has to weigh 400-600 lbs more.
Has 205/50/15 street tires
Has koni yellows with GC 450 F / 500 R
Will drive it to/from the track but it will be purely a track car, likely TT or H1 later Planning to get a dedicated wheel set for bigger R compound tires to use at the track. Looking for advice from those doing Honda challenge or comp. Events for advice on camber kits, wheel spacers, tire size/brand etc.
Has 205/50/15 street tires
Has koni yellows with GC 450 F / 500 R
Will drive it to/from the track but it will be purely a track car, likely TT or H1 later Planning to get a dedicated wheel set for bigger R compound tires to use at the track. Looking for advice from those doing Honda challenge or comp. Events for advice on camber kits, wheel spacers, tire size/brand etc.
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Re: Track EG with k20 suspension advice
Better shocks, bigger tire size, 225 on 15 , more spring front and back, how much depends on you.
To bar or not to bar, also depends on testing.
For Honda challenge, Toyo RA1, Hankook or hoosiers, and that will dictate what spring rates and suspension.
Testing and more testing. Each car is different. No magic formula, sorry.
To bar or not to bar, also depends on testing.
For Honda challenge, Toyo RA1, Hankook or hoosiers, and that will dictate what spring rates and suspension.
Testing and more testing. Each car is different. No magic formula, sorry.
Re: Track EG with k20 suspension advice
I agree with Marcel.
Spongy spring rates to say the least.
Experiment and bump those up until you find "your" perfect combo.
Are the yellows race valved?
If not have them reworked to accomdate the higher rates.
Spongy spring rates to say the least.
Experiment and bump those up until you find "your" perfect combo.
Are the yellows race valved?
If not have them reworked to accomdate the higher rates.
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Re: Track EG with k20 suspension advice
Check out this thread, extremely useful if you read through it beginning to end:
https://honda-tech.com/forums/road-racing-autocross-time-attack-19/my-suspension-quest-looking-advice-2790878/
https://honda-tech.com/forums/road-racing-autocross-time-attack-19/my-suspension-quest-looking-advice-2790878/
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Re: Track EG with k20 suspension advice
All thanks for the input. I know there is no rubber stamp answer and driving styles differ, I am just looking for a base line The tires are Azanis 615 and have no grip. I have toyo r888 on my s2000. Lasted a while but seemed to heat cycle out.
My first point I want to attach is camber
For camber kit- skunk2? Do I need front only or all 4 corners? Will look into the dampers but don't think they are race valved
My first point I want to attach is camber
For camber kit- skunk2? Do I need front only or all 4 corners? Will look into the dampers but don't think they are race valved
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From: MA
Re: Track EG with k20 suspension advice
IMO, you're borrowing from Peter to pay Paul by using any of the camber kits currently on the market. The reason for this is that the EG chassis is both camber challenged and travel challenged. Use a camber kit to get camber, and you have to raise the ride height to keep the arm from crashing into the tower. The camber kits also stand a really good chance of screwing up the bump steer curve, which in stock form really is pretty good.
As I said in that other thread, stick with stock UCAs and use lowering to get the car down in the range to get -2.5 to -3 degrees of front camber. Also, in my experience, you're going to want a bunch more front spring. I'd go to around a 700-800lb spring for starters, and I'd also use the stock front bar or a GSR/ITR front bar.
There is a TON of info on this board on chassis setup. I recommend searching and reading to get some ideas of which direction you should move in. The K20 sits a bit further forward than the b or d series motors, so you'll need a touch more front spring to compensate, but otherwise it's all the same.
As I said in that other thread, stick with stock UCAs and use lowering to get the car down in the range to get -2.5 to -3 degrees of front camber. Also, in my experience, you're going to want a bunch more front spring. I'd go to around a 700-800lb spring for starters, and I'd also use the stock front bar or a GSR/ITR front bar.
There is a TON of info on this board on chassis setup. I recommend searching and reading to get some ideas of which direction you should move in. The K20 sits a bit further forward than the b or d series motors, so you'll need a touch more front spring to compensate, but otherwise it's all the same.
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Re: Track EG with k20 suspension advice
All thanks for the input. I know there is no rubber stamp answer and driving styles differ, I am just looking for a base line The tires are Azanis 615 and have no grip. I have toyo r888 on my s2000. Lasted a while but seemed to heat cycle out.
My first point I want to attach is camber
For camber kit- skunk2? Do I need front only or all 4 corners? Will look into the dampers but don't think they are race valved
My first point I want to attach is camber
For camber kit- skunk2? Do I need front only or all 4 corners? Will look into the dampers but don't think they are race valved
1. Tires: Toyo R888's heat cycle out quick, hence why we don't run them anymore in NASA. For track events, I don't think you can beat RA-1's or Nitto NT-01's. You get lots of heat cycles, good laps times, very forgiving. No matter what tire brand, get 225/45-15's.
2. Camber: Yes, you need to get this right, or you will quickly be out of #1 (tires). Most of us run Skunk2 front UCA's, and lots of companies makes the UCA for the rear.
3. Sway bars: You want to be fast? Only one option I would consider: take off the front swaybar, put an ASR brace and 24mm swaybar in the rear.
4. Spring rates: Depending on your skill I would start with anything from 400f/600r to 800f/1200r. In general, start with a 2:3 front-to-rear ratio
5. Shocks: Depending on what you run in #4 (springs), this will set requirements here. My advice is don't cheap out here, shocks are well worth their cost. Koni Race would be the absolute minimum I would even consider, and even those leave a lot to be desired.
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Re: Track EG with k20 suspension advice
You obviously didn't read through the thread mentioned above. Lots of good well documented testing there.
https://honda-tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2790878
https://honda-tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2790878
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From: Panama, PA, Panama
Re: Track EG with k20 suspension advice
Many comments to give here:
1. Tires: Toyo R888's heat cycle out quick, hence why we don't run them anymore in NASA. For track events, I don't think you can beat RA-1's or Nitto NT-01's. You get lots of heat cycles, good laps times, very forgiving. No matter what tire brand, get 225/45-15's.
2. Camber: Yes, you need to get this right, or you will quickly be out of #1 (tires). Most of us run Skunk2 front UCA's, and lots of companies makes the UCA for the rear.
3. Sway bars: You want to be fast? Only one option I would consider: take off the front swaybar, put an ASR brace and 24mm swaybar in the rear.
4. Spring rates: Depending on your skill I would start with anything from 400f/600r to 800f/1200r. In general, start with a 2:3 front-to-rear ratio
5. Shocks: Depending on what you run in #4 (springs), this will set requirements here. My advice is don't cheap out here, shocks are well worth their cost. Koni Race would be the absolute minimum I would even consider, and even those leave a lot to be desired.
1. Tires: Toyo R888's heat cycle out quick, hence why we don't run them anymore in NASA. For track events, I don't think you can beat RA-1's or Nitto NT-01's. You get lots of heat cycles, good laps times, very forgiving. No matter what tire brand, get 225/45-15's.
2. Camber: Yes, you need to get this right, or you will quickly be out of #1 (tires). Most of us run Skunk2 front UCA's, and lots of companies makes the UCA for the rear.
3. Sway bars: You want to be fast? Only one option I would consider: take off the front swaybar, put an ASR brace and 24mm swaybar in the rear.
4. Spring rates: Depending on your skill I would start with anything from 400f/600r to 800f/1200r. In general, start with a 2:3 front-to-rear ratio
5. Shocks: Depending on what you run in #4 (springs), this will set requirements here. My advice is don't cheap out here, shocks are well worth their cost. Koni Race would be the absolute minimum I would even consider, and even those leave a lot to be desired.
1. I used to race on toyo R888 and when I try Nitto NT-01 is like night and day.
2. Go with hardrace, talk to kiwi.
3. All will go with the 32mm ASR bar.
4. Right on, I have 650 front and 850 rear. I want more rate now.
5. This is the next step I want. I have Tein RA and they are very good, but there are better options if you have the budget.
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From: MA
Re: Track EG with k20 suspension advice
Many comments to give here:
1. Tires: Toyo R888's heat cycle out quick, hence why we don't run them anymore in NASA. For track events, I don't think you can beat RA-1's or Nitto NT-01's. You get lots of heat cycles, good laps times, very forgiving. No matter what tire brand, get 225/45-15's.
2. Camber: Yes, you need to get this right, or you will quickly be out of #1 (tires). Most of us run Skunk2 front UCA's, and lots of companies makes the UCA for the rear.
3. Sway bars: You want to be fast? Only one option I would consider: take off the front swaybar, put an ASR brace and 24mm swaybar in the rear.
4. Spring rates: Depending on your skill I would start with anything from 400f/600r to 800f/1200r. In general, start with a 2:3 front-to-rear ratio
5. Shocks: Depending on what you run in #4 (springs), this will set requirements here. My advice is don't cheap out here, shocks are well worth their cost. Koni Race would be the absolute minimum I would even consider, and even those leave a lot to be desired.
1. Tires: Toyo R888's heat cycle out quick, hence why we don't run them anymore in NASA. For track events, I don't think you can beat RA-1's or Nitto NT-01's. You get lots of heat cycles, good laps times, very forgiving. No matter what tire brand, get 225/45-15's.
2. Camber: Yes, you need to get this right, or you will quickly be out of #1 (tires). Most of us run Skunk2 front UCA's, and lots of companies makes the UCA for the rear.
3. Sway bars: You want to be fast? Only one option I would consider: take off the front swaybar, put an ASR brace and 24mm swaybar in the rear.
4. Spring rates: Depending on your skill I would start with anything from 400f/600r to 800f/1200r. In general, start with a 2:3 front-to-rear ratio
5. Shocks: Depending on what you run in #4 (springs), this will set requirements here. My advice is don't cheap out here, shocks are well worth their cost. Koni Race would be the absolute minimum I would even consider, and even those leave a lot to be desired.
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Re: Track EG with k20 suspension advice
You obviously didn't read through the thread mentioned above. Lots of good well documented testing there.
https://honda-tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2790878
https://honda-tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2790878
Correct, I have not but with read it entirely. Guess I was just a little excited this morning drinking coffee.
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From: Fontana Ca.
Re: Track EG with k20 suspension advice
IMO, you're borrowing from Peter to pay Paul by using any of the camber kits currently on the market. The reason for this is that the EG chassis is both camber challenged and travel challenged. Use a camber kit to get camber, and you have to raise the ride height to keep the arm from crashing into the tower. The camber kits also stand a really good chance of screwing up the bump steer curve, which in stock form really is pretty good.
As I said in that other thread, stick with stock UCAs and use lowering to get the car down in the range to get -2.5 to -3 degrees of front camber. Also, in my experience, you're going to want a bunch more front spring. I'd go to around a 700-800lb spring for starters, and I'd also use the stock front bar or a GSR/ITR front bar.
There is a TON of info on this board on chassis setup. I recommend searching and reading to get some ideas of which direction you should move in. The K20 sits a bit further forward than the b or d series motors, so you'll need a touch more front spring to compensate, but otherwise it's all the same.
As I said in that other thread, stick with stock UCAs and use lowering to get the car down in the range to get -2.5 to -3 degrees of front camber. Also, in my experience, you're going to want a bunch more front spring. I'd go to around a 700-800lb spring for starters, and I'd also use the stock front bar or a GSR/ITR front bar.
There is a TON of info on this board on chassis setup. I recommend searching and reading to get some ideas of which direction you should move in. The K20 sits a bit further forward than the b or d series motors, so you'll need a touch more front spring to compensate, but otherwise it's all the same.
I don't see any other way to get the adjustments necesary when you are at a race.
Lets see an example. I run 235-40-17 in an ek chassis. Just tell me how can I get 3 1/2 negative in the front with just ride height?. Impossible.
Other example, this is on an eg chassis, 245-40-17 hankooks. try to lower that one withour destroying everything.
You do need a way to adjust cambers and casters and whatever else you think you need to adjust.
I have seen 1/4 of a degree make a difference on handling, also if you can tell me how are you going to corner balance a car if you keep changing your ride height to adjust your camber.
And don't forget your toe changes everytime you change your height.
I have pics of my car in two wheels using the curves and never bottom out. Or weed wacking at full speed.
So in my opinion , yes you need camber kits to adjust.
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Re: Track EG with k20 suspension advice
I'm really sorry to disagree with you on the camber kits. To me and to whole bunch of guys that I race with it is absolutely necesary to have a way to adjust your cambers without changing your ride height.
I don't see any other way to get the adjustments necesary when you are at a race.
Lets see an example. I run 235-40-17 in an ek chassis. Just tell me how can I get 3 1/2 negative in the front with just ride height?. Impossible.
Other example, this is on an eg chassis, 245-40-17 hankooks. try to lower that one withour destroying everything.
You do need a way to adjust cambers and casters and whatever else you think you need to adjust.
I have seen 1/4 of a degree make a difference on handling, also if you can tell me how are you going to corner balance a car if you keep changing your ride height to adjust your camber.
Not to mention my oil pan is just under 4 inches off the ground. I can't go lower IMO.
And don't forget your toe changes everytime you change your height.
I have pics of my car in two wheels using the curves and never bottom out. Or weed wacking at full speed.
So in my opinion , yes you need camber kits to adjust.
I don't see any other way to get the adjustments necesary when you are at a race.
Lets see an example. I run 235-40-17 in an ek chassis. Just tell me how can I get 3 1/2 negative in the front with just ride height?. Impossible.
Other example, this is on an eg chassis, 245-40-17 hankooks. try to lower that one withour destroying everything.
You do need a way to adjust cambers and casters and whatever else you think you need to adjust.
I have seen 1/4 of a degree make a difference on handling, also if you can tell me how are you going to corner balance a car if you keep changing your ride height to adjust your camber.
Not to mention my oil pan is just under 4 inches off the ground. I can't go lower IMO.
And don't forget your toe changes everytime you change your height.
I have pics of my car in two wheels using the curves and never bottom out. Or weed wacking at full speed.
So in my opinion , yes you need camber kits to adjust.
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From: Fontana Ca.
Re: Track EG with k20 suspension advice
You don't want the car too low. That is just for shows and parking lots. I also have a k20 and the pan is only 1 inch from the bottom of my splitter.
There is uca out there that work good. Give my friend Kiwi a call he will point you in the right direction.
Re: Track EG with k20 suspension advice
Yikes I remember that vid.. Miller is brutal if you hit the kerbs.
There is like rumble strips on those areas.
His wasnt the only car to have that happen to.
There is like rumble strips on those areas.
His wasnt the only car to have that happen to.
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From: Fontana Ca.
Re: Track EG with k20 suspension advice
I also saw Pete's H1 car burn down to a crisp right infront of me. But that was electrical.
I would keep that pan as far off the ground as possible, specially if you have the aluminium pan instead of the steel.
An EG with a K20 is an awsome combination in my opinion, a lot of potential if you test and find answers.
Good luck.
I would keep that pan as far off the ground as possible, specially if you have the aluminium pan instead of the steel.
An EG with a K20 is an awsome combination in my opinion, a lot of potential if you test and find answers.
Good luck.
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Re: Track EG with k20 suspension advice
I have an s2000 with big r compounds, coil overs and camber adjusted for track use. The car really sticks and is so poised. But the EG is just such a riot to try and handle. It is also much more lively. The track I was on my top speed in the s is 122. First time out in the EG it was 131. I just need to get it to stick and get an LSD. So with no experience with this car I want to draw from the experience and knowledge found here.
Re: Track EG with k20 suspension advice
But take your time and learn the car.
Make slow changes.
Avoid go fast parts until you can manage the car and learn its charcteristics stock or what ever trim its in now.
No need to rush and make the learning curve more steep
Make slow changes.
Avoid go fast parts until you can manage the car and learn its charcteristics stock or what ever trim its in now.
No need to rush and make the learning curve more steep
Suspetise...
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From: Burninating the peasants yo
Re: Track EG with k20 suspension advice
I have an s2000 with big r compounds, coil overs and camber adjusted for track use. The car really sticks and is so poised. But the EG is just such a riot to try and handle. It is also much more lively. The track I was on my top speed in the s is 122. First time out in the EG it was 131. I just need to get it to stick and get an LSD. So with no experience with this car I want to draw from the experience and knowledge found here.
-Your S2000 sounds like it was setup ok. Not hard to do, as its pretty darn good right out of the box.
-A K20 Civic with no LSD, 205 street tires, and soft springs will suck.
-Consequently, it should be no surprise that the S2K feels a lot better. I'd be surprised if it didn't. You're essentially starting from scratch with the Civic.
I'm staying out of the UCA discussion. There are pros and cons to each, you need to figure out what you need (which will be mostly tire dependent; not all tires need -3* camber to work).
Edit: One comment I will make- guys running 245/40-17s, that is a HUGE tire. You're looking at nearly 2" more in OD, that will make all kinds of clearance problems. I don't think thats a typical Honda setup.
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Re: Track EG with k20 suspension advice
Just so you know:
-Your S2000 sounds like it was setup ok. Not hard to do, as its pretty darn good right out of the box.
-A K20 Civic with no LSD, 205 street tires, and soft springs will suck.
-Consequently, it should be no surprise that the S2K feels a lot better. I'd be surprised if it didn't. You're essentially starting from scratch with the Civic.
I'm staying out of the UCA discussion. There are pros and cons to each, you need to figure out what you need (which will be mostly tire dependent; not all tires need -3* camber to work).
Edit: One comment I will make- guys running 245/40-17s, that is a HUGE tire. You're looking at nearly 2" more in OD, that will make all kinds of clearance problems. I don't think thats a typical Honda setup.
-Your S2000 sounds like it was setup ok. Not hard to do, as its pretty darn good right out of the box.
-A K20 Civic with no LSD, 205 street tires, and soft springs will suck.
-Consequently, it should be no surprise that the S2K feels a lot better. I'd be surprised if it didn't. You're essentially starting from scratch with the Civic.
I'm staying out of the UCA discussion. There are pros and cons to each, you need to figure out what you need (which will be mostly tire dependent; not all tires need -3* camber to work).
Edit: One comment I will make- guys running 245/40-17s, that is a HUGE tire. You're looking at nearly 2" more in OD, that will make all kinds of clearance problems. I don't think thats a typical Honda setup.
I would agree. The little bit I have done with the S is over a 2 year period so I am not throwing parts at this but it clearly needs more. No gripe on power or brakes, just not good in the corners. The k20a2 I have is an open diff. Is there anybody that wants to chime in on this? I have read nothing but praise on OS Gilken but I don't think they have it for the k series. I here helicals are good so looking at mfactory or wavetrac.
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