I've heard it does, but I can't find anything to support that.

Basicly I am having some snap oversteer issues with my car. (98 dx, si sway bars, blox endlinks. All orginal bushings)


My question is as the title says. Can the worn RTA's cause snap oversteer?

 

in for answers w/a hint of bump for a guy always willing to help.

 

^^Thank you.

I may just end up buying ES TA bushings to hold me over until I can get PIC.

400-500 mile road trip+ lots and lots of cuvry roads.
So having the car ready by next ready is key.

 

Can't PIC's be scored for like $125? Or am I trippin???

Would buying the ES's make sense as opposed to springing for the PIC's?

 

I think your trippin. lol The PIC bushings run around $250

Yes, that would be true. But I just need something to hold me over untill I can get the PIC bushings. Most likely this winter.

The main reason I would rather just get the ES bushings now is becuase my car is really starting to freak me out. The *** snaps very hard and fast.

 

^^^ Holy $hit my bad, just saw that via their website.

Nothing wrong w/ES no matter which way you slice it.

...what an awkward problem to have, is it all of the sudden; or an onset problem graduating over time and now its peaking?

 

yea, well the trailing arm bushings seperate run about $90, and I would rather buy the ES now and just wait and get the full kit.

No, there really isn't anything wrong with ES. As long as you keep the clean and lubed up you shoudn't have issues with them for a long time. They wont at last rubber as they claim it will, but I am not worried as long it's lasts for a year or less. Which I see them doing it easily.

I have had the problem for a while, but it's just started to get bad. It will normally do it slight bumps in intersections, but it doesn't really step out like it will at speed. But I can't also blame that on the bushhings. Front sway isn't hooked up now. haha

Before anyone asked, yes it was doing this before and after the front was unhooked.

 

I had one broken bushing and one on its way out. No snap oversteer issues, even after installing my rear bar/brace combo (23mm old school Suspension Techniques with spherical endlinks). However, after installing Progress RTA bushings (marketed to have a higher durometer than ES), I have noticed snap oversteer issues in certian circumstances (off camber, high speed lift into a downhill sweeper).

Not sure if this helps, but just my experiences.

 

Yeah I picked up my ES RTA bushings for $25 locally. Never got around to installing them in the Del Sol

 

Many are against the ES bushings but I have not had any problems with them. The car feels very tight and precise. Also the only time I have had snap oversteer on a car was with a whacky alignment. It was like grip grip grip and ohhhhhh ****!!! and then (Samuel L Jackson yelling "Hold on to ya butts!")

 

Hmm. It makes me wonder.

What the hell could be causing this then?

I am runing blox spherical endlinks in the rear, which I know do need to be replaced. Tommorow after I get off work I'll take a look and see what I can see lol

Sometimes when I am going stright, on the highway if it hit a bump the *** will wiggle, or snap to the left or the right. This doesn't happen a lot though.

I had a chance to pick them up for $20 and I didn't, and I should have.


Yes that is very true. people love to hate on them, but, many have not even used them. They hop on the bandwagon of everyone saying they suck.

I have ES sway bar bushings for about 1.5 years now, with no issues.

But I have seen many cases where they totaly fell apart in less then 2 years. I have come to the conclusion it depends on the climate you live in.

Thanks guys!

 

The Progress RTA bushings are the same design as the ES, just harder. I have Progress CS-II coilovers and many have been successful with their products on the street, in Honda Challenge and in endurance racing for years. I have only had them about 6 months, but I see no reason to doubt their quality.

How are your LCA bushings? That is pretty drastic that you are having that snap oversteer issue. What are your toe settings? How are your toe links?

 

I never doubt progress, they make the best/cheapest coilovers out.

Everything in the car is orginal. 12-13 years old with 210k on them.

The last time I was down there everything looked "okay" I didn't notice any tearing, or the bushings rotting. They deffinetly could be replaced.

Toe is 0.10 both sides.

 

I don't know for sure with the RTA bushings would necessarily be a direct cause of snap oversteer but it may have an effect on your alignment which certainly can cause more oversteer.

Energy Suspension bushings are fine and all, but in the case of RTA's, their bushings just are not well designed. It is a big pain in the *** to prep and install and it seems to be known for racing that they have a more negative effect on the cars handling.

The ES RTA bushings make you use the metal collar from the OE RTA bushing. This means shaving, cutting, burning, etc... the OE bushing to get the collar off and clean. I've tried it before and it is a pain in the ***. Aside from that mess, the fact that the metal collar you re-use in the new ES bushing just slides into the new bushing is a problem. This can cause binding within the bushing which isn't what you would expect from an aftermarket part. Afterall the collar just sits in the bushing, it is not actually attached to it.

Here's a picture of the part.


Notice the black metal collar within the bushing. It is not attached, just slides in. The other thing you can see in that picture is that the ES bushings do not have a metal ring around the entire bushing. Like in seen this picture:


The OE bushings need to be press out/in because the rubber bushing itself is surrounded/attached to a metal ring around it. The fact that the ES bushing does not need to be pressed in/out and does not have that metal ring leads me to believe there would be quite a bit of bind when under stress.

A lot of people say new OE RTA bushings are better than these ES bushings, simply by design. HardRace and Mugen use the same OE design but with better material so if you want an aftermarket solution, get either of those.

As I mentioned, I tried out the ES bushing and gave up with it while trying to clean up the collars from the old rubber. Ended up selling my ES bushings and bought/installed OE RTA's. They've been on the car for a couple of years and they don't have a crack in them.

 

si sway bars front and rear?
what kind of tire size?
did you clock all your suspension bolts right (torqued them with the full weight of the car on them)?

 

Thank you for the responce! I know all about the pain to install the bushings lol

I am just looking for a quick and somewhat cheap solution to get me untill I can afford to do the whole car with PIC bushings.

The one thing that kind of confuses me, is some say it's aswesome, some say they suck. I don't know who to belive.


I will take a look and see what I can get the hardrubber bushings for, but I will either just say **** it, and leave them alone or replace them with ES.

I am going to talk to my buddy who just installed them and see how he likes them.

 

Yes, SI sway bars front/rear. I am currently useing ES sway bar bushings, and blox adjustable endlinks front/rear.

Dunlop SP37's 195-55-15

Yes, I ALWAYS clock my bushings.

The car was aligned 2-3 months ago, and I am runing -2* camber in rear.

 

spring rate?

type of shock/spring combo?

 

10k front 6k rear skunk2's. On stock shocks

I should have included that earlier. lol

 

that might be your problem there.

i have that slight problem with my skunk2's. but i have koni spss3's that compensate for the floaty/bounce that you get from skunk2 springs in a turn.

do you get a slight float in the rear. like an extra bounce in the rear when you go over/hit a bump? if yes, then very highly it is your spring. the snap oversteer is probably from the unsettling coming from the spring.

 

It has in the past felt weird when going threw a corner, and hitting bumps. This is about 35-40mph and kind of a sharp corner.

Even when just hanging a left at a intersection at 15-20 or so, it snaps.

It doesn't always do it, but then again, it could be blamed on the shtting roads we have here.

Is there anything I should look for on the rear end? The springs are only about 2.5 years old, and I am no where near slammed.


EDIT- When it feel like it has a extra bounce, at the same time, it's bouncing to left or the right.

 

don't think it matters on how old the springs are. i've heard, and have experience, that skunk2 springs have that bounce/floaty feel.

try hitting a rolling bump/easy dip, will feel like someone is jumping up and down on your bumper.

 

Springs seem too high rate for old stock shocks. Check for leaks, blown?

 

I heard someone say that back in the day. I had these springs on AGX's (which blew 6 months later) and they will just as bumpy, didn't bounce nearly as bad as the car does now, but they were no where near comfy.

Just normal driving It doesn't feel like that. But it's not wear near comfy


They're long gone lol

The pass rear just recently blew. Theres oil all over the garage floor.

Fronts haven't leaked yet, but I wouldn't put it past them being blown as well.

 

I am not sure that I understand. You are asking why you may snap oversteer with blown rear shocks and failing RTA? I would not say the specific symptom of that is snap oversteer, but bouncing, and unstable tracking under load seem reasonable.