Hey guys, I'm hoping I've come to the right place because I'm looking for some technical answers I haven't been able to find elsewhere on the internet.

First let me preface this by saying that this engine/tranny are not going to be in a car but as the power-train for a rock buggy. By taking the standard transverse mounted drive-train and turning it 90* and welding the spider gears in the transmission we can have the drive shafts mount to the transaxle outputs going down to the front and rear axles. What I have is a F22B2 non-VTEC from a 94 accord DX. It came with a manual transmission but I purchased an automatic because that's what I need for my application. I have the manual engine harness and ECU (which I know are different than the automatic's).

Well here's my questions.....

1a) Do all 94-97 accords with automatics use a separate transmission control module or is it only the 94-95 models that use OBD1? The reason I ask is it seems like the 94-94 ECU's have three plugs while the 96-97 have 4. I've pulled the wiring schematics from AllData and I can't see a transmission control module on the 96-97 models - it seems like the transmission controls go directly to the ECU but I've seen transmission control modules for sale on eBay for the 96-97 so I'm confused.

1b) If that's the case with the later model accords, can't I just keep the manual engine wiring harness and get the automatic OBD2 ECU and wire the transmission separately directly to the "B" plug of the ECU? I'm going to be eliminating the body harness completely and just splicing the engine harness into the ECU plugs for the engine so can't a just do that for the tranny also. I guess what I'm getting at is what would be the best ECU for my application?

2) For my application where VSS, EGR and a couple other functions aren't necessary, am I better off going with a OBD1 or 2 ECU and can the auto's be chipped to delete some of the functions I don't need?

3) Easier question: there's a module on the side of the automatic transmission near the cv output that has two hoses coming out of it. What is this and where do the hoses go?

I have more questions but I don't want to overwhelm the board since I am a here. Thanks for the help, it's much appreciated since Honda's aren't my specialty.

 

bump....yall help this man out! i think this would be a nice build! post pictures along the way the only problem i see is you might need a locker or use a h22 trans and a locker

 

you def want to stay obd1. i believe only the obd1 94-95 accord ecus controlled the tranny. if you want mine, you can have it. you can pick it up in boston ma or ill ship it to you for $9 it came out of my 95 lx automatic that i converted to standard.

but if you plan on chipping the ecu, looking to the 92-95 civic integra ecus. those are the chip-able ones. and the differentiate between auto and standard.

 

Thanks,

Welding the spider gears in the R&P portion of the transaxle accomplishes the same task as installing a spool. Since the outputs are going to the front and rear axles, I don't want a part time locker/limited slip because I always want both F&R driveshafts to turn. I don't know if they make a spool for the F22 trans but welding it is cheaper and just as effective when done correctly.

 

Thanks for the reply. This is the type of information I'm looking for.

Are you sayings that the 92-95 civic ECU's are compatible with the F22 series engines? Don't those year models use the D-series 1.6L engines and if so isn't the fuel mapping going to be different for the smaller displacement engines?

I'd definitely be interested in getting your transmission controller from you. I'll PM you about it to keep this thread about tech and not about buying selling things.

Any one else able to contribute to this? Thanks in advance!

 

I didn't think Honda bothered integrating the TCU just yet into the ECU creating a PCM in the 96/97s, but I could be wrong.
Again, not sure on specifics. But I would maintain OBD I for your application. If nothing else, if the OBDII is different, it may want to 'talk' with the ECU and may not be interchangeable between 94/95 and 96/97.
I am unsure, but doesn't the TCU need the VSS signal for proper operation. It has the two shaft sensors, but I would think it also uses the VSS for shift points when left in auto mode. Possibly not a concern with a rock crawler, but I do not know what it may/may not do to shifting.
This doesn't sound right.
There is the shift cable that is located under a removable cover on the underside of the bellhousing. You will need this, obviously, to shift.
On Odyssey transmissions there is a shift indicator switch mounted to the 'left' cover which is the back end of the trans, above the drain plug.
There is a vent on top of the trans in front of the trans mount pad.
And there are two large banjo fittings on top with metal tubes that are the trans cooler lines.
On '94-'97 Accord automatic transmissions, AFAIK, there is nothing on the the differential side of the transmission except for the VSS on top, and the NM/NC pickup near the back corner, but that's wiring not hoses.
Can you take a picture of the hoses?

 

i know i've seen these hoses coming from the VSS.. i think they run to the P/S rack maybe as some sort of "speed sensing" steering compensation. i think these were OBD-I specific, but i'm not sure.

 

if you go with a 92--5 civic integra ecu you can have it "chipped" and run a f22 base map. you can even go as far and spend about 85 and buy a chip burner and burn your own basemaps. look up the program crome, its free obd1 tuning software. you can build your basemap custom for rock climbing

may i suggest you speak with chris harris. he owns xenocron tuning solutions. he will have everything you need, correct answers and point you in the right direction.

www.xenocron.com

http://tunewithcrome.com/

 

I took a picture of it today and will post it later tonight showing the piece in question. It mounted directly over the output section of the trans-axle. I saw the two banjo fittings you were talking about and had assumed they were the trans cooler lines. The module I'm referring to is completely separate of the cooling lines.

Thanks!

 

This sounds like a more plausible description of what it is. According to the wiring schematic there are two separate speed sensors, one on the main shaft and one on the counter shaft. I believe I've located both of these on the trans-axle but this unit is separate of either of those and has no electrical connections going to it. I'll post a pic tonight to avoid further confusion.

Thanks!

 

Thanks for the info and contact information.....very helpful.

 

Here's a picture of the module in question on the trans-axle.

Click Here

 

yeah, definitely the speed sensor. i don't know where the wires are but the connector would have been held by that metal clip over top of the black housing.

 

So I guess the bigger question is can I remove it completely or do I need it and if so then are the hoses the inlet and outlet for the low pressure (return side) power steering system or going to something else..?

 

you can just leave the hoses loose (or remove them from the sensor), but you'll want to hook up the sensor because the ECU will be looking for it. the other option is to run a chipped ECU with a modified ROM that doesn't look for the VSS... as i understand this is possible, but i have no real experience with it specifically.

 

Which model of Accord used speed sensing steering?
I thought only Preludes used this on their 4WS models.

 

i'm only speculating on the function/purpose for the hoses. in my mind it makes the most sense that some connection between the steering rack and speed sensor would vary the pressure or flow rate of the P/S fluid to reduce the "level of assist" at cruising speed.

 

Thanks for all the help guys, I appreciate it.

I have another question...

What inlet fuel pressure is the F22 supposed to have so I know what rated aftermarket fuel pump to get. From what I've researched it looks like around 40 psi...does that sound right?

 

yeah, 38-46psi is the "normal" range.

 

I saw an episode of Extreme 4X4 on spike where they used a DA Integra and tranny for their rock crawler. They mounted it traversely in the back of the crawler. Don't have the link but will try to find it. Good luck.

 

I saw that episode and there have been a couple other builds that I've seen on other forums that incorporate Honda/Toyota transverse drivetrains in a mid/rear engine rock crawler, all of which seem to do very well off road. I ended up with a real good deal on the F22B2 engine and I liked the power it produced. I'm hoping to have the complete buggy weighing in at around 1800-2000 lbs and be able to tweak the engine a little to bump the factory 130hp to around 150-160hp should give me a quick and highly capable crawler. I'm still in the stage of collecting all my parts and I'm hoping to start the build in a couple months. I'll post up some pics once I get started. Thanks again for everyone's help.

Nathan

 

That is the power steering speed sensor/ VSS combo. You have to leave it in place or rig up a mount for the VSS. But you can simply block off the tubes as they only apply to the PS system. I believe the sensor only came on the MY1990-1993 accords with the F22a motors. There should be an electrical plug on the back of that sensor.

 

There shouldn't be a problem with bolting that tranny up to a F22B2 engine right?

 

Nah, all F/H motors use the same bellhousing.