My daughter's car has been semi reliable. Usually it would be a hard start issue. We would put our hand over the intake pipe to "choke" it as it cranks and it would fire up so this failure had me leaning to fuel but it has no fire in the wires.

It drove several miles in summer heat and just died on her.

Towed home and find no spark.

Do these usually have a certain item that fails where I start tracking?

Ignition module perhaps like my GM stuff?

I will be out working today so won't be on much for a few hours to give beter info.

Car has new timing belt and balancer belt recently installed by me.

Brent

 

if you're sure you didn't have spark you need to check your ignition coil and ICM (ignition control module). If it has an external coil (not inside the distributor) you should focus on the icm.

 

I am 99.9% sure of no spark... tried an ignition tester and a plug in 2 different wires.

Also noted oil in a plug hole and figure that is rocker cover gasket failure.

Are their test parameters for the ignition components someone can steer me to?

BTW, not working afterall so watching this close as she wants her "Shelly" back on the road...

Brent

 

First off - you will need to replace the VC gaskets - change all 4 spark plug chamber seals with the larger gasket simultaneously.

How many miles on the car? When were plugs/wires/rotor/cap changed out last?

Distributor issue?

 

Unknown Speedo doesn't work... she has a GPS for that...
I haven't but none of those would be a big deal... I figured at least one plug would fire with a bad cap/rotor/wires.
I $ure hope it isn't a major cost item...

Brent

 

Is your ignition coil external? Like I said, if it is you need to focus on the ICM. There are ways to test it but the most conclusive is with a DSO (digital storage oscilloscope). By your symptoms it sounds like an ICM problem. Pretty common stuff.

 

Coil appears to be internal in the cap.

Next step?
Brent

 

If you don't have a manual, read thru this and it should give you some more testing procedures....
http://techauto.awardspace.com/ignition.html

 

Will do poorman... we did get a manual but seems it got placed somewhere I ain't looked yet.

In the mean time I took off cap and rotor both look poor (no pun intended) there was a plastic shield in there that looked like something may have came off the rotor and punched a hole in it as well.

 

Thanks... that link seems very helpful!

Brent

 

Hey no worries. You can download a PDF manaul for free, I personally don't like the way it is put together for the 4th gen's (90-93) but it works for what I use if for....even though I don't and never have had a 4th gen??? Lt me know if you would like that link.

My pleasure, I'm sure you noticed but there is also a section on that site for checking the ign switch as well.

Let us know how it turns out.

 

Well back from parts house. Cap looked real bad with center button collapsed/worn off. Obvious loss of length of the tab that protrudes to the plug wire poles so that was excessive wear too.

Insulation on the WHT/BLU wire to the ignitor was bad so dressing it with liquid e-tape for now. Once it is well coated with a few layers, I can install her stufff which was a good portion of her paycheck.

The DMM check for voltage to coil and ignitor with key on were good.


Brent

 

Well I wasn't so lucky that the cap and rotor would be all that is wrong.

Having found that crumbling insulation isn't a good sign so the less molesting of wires the better I guess.

Brent

 

Where do I look for this "main relay"?

We will whoop this little bugger...

Brent

 

Same link I posted, top left "Main relay fix", then the tab across the top for "replace"....it will help locating....

It is under the dash to the left of the sterring wheel....be sure to test......

 

Let us know if that main relay fixes your car. If not, I can give you a decent test for the ICM. Did your ignition coil have any "hot spots" on it or did you look? If you remove the coil and the metal plate around it usually you can see if there's been any arcing from the windings. You'll see bluish/greyish spots on the coil, and on the metal plate. Sometimes if it's been arcing a while you'll see black burnt spots on the plate as well. You rarely see external coils fail, but internal coils and ICM's are very common ignition failures.

 

AHHH YES!!! Now we are makin' sense... The day we looked at the car, the forum member hauled it halfway 'tween his place and mine and me and daughter test drove it. We liked it so exchanged cash and title. Then we go to leave and no crank. So we "undid" the deal.

Well it started at the guy's house when he got home and he found the cruise control light on and my daughter remembered activating it. So we ASSumed it had overheated the cruise computer which in turn heated the relay. So we never turned on the cruise again.

Now I am lacking on the supplies and tools to de-solder and such. How much is this item retailing for and are they improved if current manufacturing?

But I ain't worried... The parts she "invested" in are very much needed and nothing she bought is wasted parts.

Brent

 

Coil was not closely inspected and scrutinized. But in general I give the distributor internal appearance overall of only 3.5-4 out of 10 for dirty, got hot looking. As I said early on, the plastic dust shield even had a hole fracturing in it and the plastic was right there so obviously occurred in the dist. not years ago when they changed rotor button...

Brent

 

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/web...___#fragment-2

This $62 dollar unit seems to be the one?

Brent

 

Got a new relay installed and still no fire... What next?

TIA,
Brent

 

The PGMFI Main Relay powers the ECM and the fuel pump. You're no-spark is not likely caused by a faulty main relay.

You don't need specialized fancy equipment to test the ignition coil or ignition control module in this vehicle. A test light will work just fine, for the most part.

The most common causes of no-spark are a failure of the ignition coil and/or the ignition control module ( ICM ). The ignition control module commands the ignition coil by means of a ground connection through the ICM. Simply connect one end of your test light to the positive terminal of your vehicle battery and the other to the ground wire at the ignition coil. If the test light blinks while cranking the ICM is commanding the ignition coil and is okay. If you have power to the coil and the ICM is commanding, then the coil is likely the cluprit. Coils can fail intermittently and can be heat related.

If the ICM doesn't cause the test light to blink and you have confirmed a timing signal to the ICM from the ECM...

 

... The problem is likely the ICM.

 

First thing in the AM, I will check this and get right back on if no issue is found.

The main relay was showing the typical faults in solder joints so told daughter it wasn't wasted money either.

Brent

 

I am having this EXACT same problem and have tried everything. Did the test light on the coil and it did not flash so i bought the ICM.. still no spark and im 120 in the hole. My only other guess is the whole distributor. Went from hard to start cold to just stalling and never starting again.

 

Before replacing the ICM it is important to confirm power, ground and a timing signal from the ECM. That was covered in previous posts. Did you confirm these things first?

If a timing sensor is faulty the ECM will not send a timing signal to the ICM and there will be no spark.