***NOTICE***
This is no longer a help thread, but my build in progress. From everyone that posted here, and from other threads I have read, I have found all the help I need, thanks HT!


***Update 8-15-12***
Bottom end:
B20z
---A few thousand miles at time of purchase
---RS Machine 11.5:1 racing pistons
-Type R water pump
-Type R oil pump
-B16 LSD w/ls 5th transmission [ordered, waiting for install]
-Gates GSR timing belt


Top:
B16a
---Currently stock Internals
------S2 Pro 1s [waiting for install at time of tune]
------BWR pro springs/retainers [waiting for cam install]
-BWR Intake manifold
-No name big bore throttle body
-DC Sports short ram intake
-S2 adjustable cam gears
-NGK spark wires/plugs
-ID 1000cc injectors [waiting for tune]


General/Random:
-Walbro 255 lph fuel pump
-Hasport motor mounts
-Rage replica big tube header
-BWR adjustable test pipe
-Kakimoto full 3" exhaust
-Seibon OEM style carbon hood
-BWR Pro [silver] LCAs
-SRR lower tie bar
-Mishimoto radiator w/electric slim fan
-BWR silver oil cap
-BWR silver battery tie down
-Metallic silver and turquoise fender washers
-ITR shift boot
-JDM ITR rear seats
-JDM UKDM armrest delete
-LED dash/gauge lights (blue/red), cool blue dome light and trunk light (Love the light output on these)
-OEM integra front/rear bumpers (random body kit before); 94 front, 98 rear...Seller would only sell the 2 different styles for cheap (150 shipped for both), but im satisfied


Future/Planned:
-AEM ITR 3" CAI
-ITR style gauge cluster (up to 9k rpms)
-Oil pressure gauge
-Suspension (BWR, S2, or Function)
-ITR style spoiler
-Hondata s300 tuning
-SI style front lip
-Full exterior OEM re-paint
-New front seats (whatever is both comfortable and stylish)
-S2k Push start button along with random kill switches







***Edit***
This swap has been in progress. Currently, B20z w/b16 head, 11.5:1 compression, BWR intake, DC sports short ram, rage replica big tube header, cat delete w/full 3 inch Kakimoto exhaust. Still stock head internals (S2 pro 1s, BWR springs/retainers, walbro 255 pump, and ID 1000cc injectors waiting to be put in at time of tuning). As such, I no longer need help with this build, and have turned this into my build in progress thread.


***End Edit***
Hey all, so I recently acquired a b16A head, and am looking to do lsvtec in my 1994 integra rs
I have been reading up on LS/Vtec build threads and sites for the past few weeks, and have a few questions not fully answered through the uses of google, and said forums. My intended goal is to keep my b18b1 block as stock as possible, and just swap out the b18 head for the b16. I will be completely rebuilding the block at a later date, when I have more $$$, but am now just looking for a "for fun" vtec swap. That means I won't be competitively racing on just the head swap.

The stuff I am already planning on getting:
>Golden Eagle Vtec Conversion Kit 81mm bore
>ARP Head Studs B18C1 or B20B/B18A/B with B16A/B18C Head 11mm
>Misc Head parts (missing bolts)

The stuff I am planning on re-using (pre-existing b18b or b16 parts):
>Oil pump, water pump
>injectors and fuel rail
>Headers/exhaust manifold
>throttle body (not sure if this is aftermarket or stock)
>fuel pump

The stuff I already have:
>Intake mani
>b16 cams/full b16 block
>adj gears
>Valve cover
>vtec solenoid
>chipped p75 ecu
>Vtec subharness
>


The questions I have:
1. Are these all of the correct parts and/or part numbers that I need for a b18b/b16a setup?
2.Can I get away with a decent swap for my purpose using these parts and pre-existing b18b parts that I have.
3.What all custom wiring will I need to run on a b18b/b16a setup?

Any other recommendations or suggestions beyond my specific questions are greatly appreciated, as I am not too well knowledged in mechanics, but would like to be.


Thanks

 

Add arp rod bolts to your list.

Why the hell are you re-using plugs and plug wires? Don't be cheap. Get new ones. B18b plug wires are an entirely different part number from honda than b18c plug wires. Like wise on spark plugs. Spend $60 or $70 on new plugs and wires.

You need to use a water pump from a vtec motor. Oil pumps are all the same.

Again stop being cheap, get a new timing belt. You need one from a vtec motor. Pick up a gates or oem belt.

Your wasting your time running aftermarket cams without adjustable cam gears. Aside from that because timing on ls vtec motors will always be off you should have adjustable cam gears to compensate.

Pretty much all oem injectors are 240cc so your fine there. Only some random d-series and prelude motors were not 240cc injectors

A stock header will not do you any favors in terms of power.

Same goes for the stock throttle body.

Fuel pump...you can get away with the stock unit without a problem, but a walbro 255 would be a nice bit of added insurance.

Please reference this thread -> https://honda-tech.com/forums/showth...ghlight=bambam Its all the info you need.

 

Thanks for the reply. I have been reading very much on that thread. Actually using it as a primary source. Some/parts of the information you provided is not listed in that thread, and will help a lot. I am asking these questions because I have not found any definite answers as to what I can get away with, and what I can't, only suggestions of what I should upgrade/change.

I will now be getting new spark plugs/wires, but I have heard different things about water pumps. Even that thread mentions using stock ls pumps as being good, but advises against it. As for the cams/shafts, the b16a head I got did not come with any, so I figure might as well get aftermarket, had it come with them, I probably would not be getting new cams. I will look more into adj gears and timing belts. Thanks for the injector information, and I'm not really looking to max out my power for throttle/header wise, I really just want as simple and cheap a vtec swap as possible to just mess around with. Now, I know this might be ricey or w/e, but the b16a head I got came with a block, and I plan to slowly build that up over time for maxed vtec, and possibly even turbo.

About the rod bolts, do I really need them for my purpose, or can I get away without? A friend of a friend said I would be better off saving them for the block build, and not the head swap.


I still haven't figured out the ECU swap. If I got a p28/similar ecu, would I just disconnect my current ecu, and plug and play the new ecu, while only needing to run a vtec wire? If so, how is the vtec wire installed?


Thanks again for the reply

 

All 96+ oil pumps are the same, since u have a 94. Add that to your list also.

 

Ok, now I have an updated parts list:
I have:
91 b16 head
>b16 cams
>Skunk2 adj gears
>Type R vtec solenoid
>vtec spark plugs/wires (might replace anyways)
>vtec valve cover
b16 Intake Manifold
68mm throttle body
b16/ls injectors
22T Water pump (might be missing parts, not sure, could someone help with verification?)
oil pump (idk if gsr/R or LS, no markings, also not sure if missing parts)
BWR vtec kit (might be missing some parts), might replace all or some with GE kit
>Gasket sandwich plate thingy
>Oil line with adapter thing
>>I think it has a fuel pressure regulator
p75 chipped ECU
>7700 rev limit
>Fuel - type r
>Intake - type r
>5500 vtec
>4000 launch control

Planning to get:
Vtec b16A distributor
spark plugs/wires (if needed)
GE Kit (If needed)
b18C head studs
vtec timing belt (if I use 22T and ITR oil pump)
type r valve springs (if money permits)
gaskets galore

planning to re-use:
completely stock b18b1 block
b18b1 wiring harness
b18b1 exhaust manifold/headers





The main thing I'm still hesitant on is the vtec/ecu wiring with the b18b1 harness. I'm not sure what the wiring from the solenoid connects to, and how that plays into the ecu

 

You'll want the ARP rod bat if u wanna rev safely over 7k. And you will have to run a wire into the harness to the ecu for the pressure switch and solenoid

 

Thanks for the reply.
Yea, I'm planning on keeping relatively stock LS rev limit (6800 I think). Whatever it is, I'm not planing a vacation in the 7s. I was really hoping to have a 4k vtec engagement, but the chipper didn't do that. I know its supposed to be tuned to my car, but I'm not too concerned about that, I just want to have a little fun to tide me over until I get a full build going (which will probably be 3+ years).

I've been trying to find some walkthroughs for the vtec wiring with no luck. Electrical wiring isn't my forte
I'm going to try and search some more, and hopefully it will come to me, as it seems the rest of this build slowly has.



One thing I am curious about is if I keep revs to <7500, will using stock b18b1 block, and stock ls water/oil pumps be a problem? In reality, Id probably only rev to 7.

 

You should get one of these..

http://www.rywire.com/catalog/obd1-o...19291abc07f89b

Click on the Instructions tab for wiring instructions.

You adamant about the P75 ECU? Are you going to do a VTEC conversion on the ECU? If so, go here for the parts:

http://www.xenocron.com/products.php?page=chippingkits

then read this..

http://xenocron.com/install/index.htm

 

Thanks, i'll check out that subharness!

yea, I'm pretty pro p75 right now...I already have one that has been chipped and pre-programmed. All of the stuff I listed above is what it has already been modified for.

 

Spending the money to add a VTEC head and then keeping revs at 7k is utterly pointless, IMO.

I recommend that if you have to choose between spending your $$ building the bottom end vs the head, start with the bottom. You can get a stock GS-R valvetrain very cheap. If it forces you to delay your build slightly then so be it.

Option a) bottom end is LS, rev limit stuck at 6800, VTEC head is a worthless expense, cams very poorly matched to low compression, whp ~120

Option b) bottom end built, cheap GS-R head, rev limit very safe at 8200, plenty of compression for cams, whp ~150

It's basically a decision between having a GS-R engine (option b) or an LS engine with a VTEC valve cover (option a) for the next 3 years.

Another thing I don't think you account enough for in your build is tuning. You won't get anywhere with a stock fuel map on the cams you suggest. You'll need to figure an additional $500-800 for tuning depending upon which route you take.

LS-V builds can be great but there's a reason they have a repulation for unreliability, and that's because they are expensive to execute properly. I can tell you want to do this right but don't let your pocketbook make decisions for you if you want to pursue this build. There are a lot of LS blocks that became lawn ornaments because their owners tried to cut corners, and the biggest, roughest corners are building the bottom end for high engine speeds and proper tuning.

 

I think people are getting the wrong idea about my plan for head swapping. The only racing I do is against friends, and I just want to mess around with vtec for the time being. Once I get a nice build going is when I expect to have the time and money to get more into racing, as for now, my constraints leave me completely content with casual events.

With that said, this is my current situation:
I have a completely assembled stock b18b1, parted b18b1 block, parted b16a head, and a nearly assembled b16 head. As of now, I have a budget of $600, and can not afford downtime with the car.

Plan A (current plan): go lsV with stock ls bottom end. Only need to buy distributor, head studs, conversion gasket, and vtec wires. Virtually instant swap into my already running car, resulting in very minimal downtime. As long as revs are watched, it would be just as reliable as any other manufactured engine. I would now have the added "fun" effect of vtec. Then I would continue on to plan B over the next few years, all the long while learning up on complete engine swaps (I don't currently have knowledge of completely building engines, and hope the hands-on experience with the head swap will aid in that). Estimated cost about $500. With plan to use leftover funds + what little more I will be getting by then to get tuned.

Plan B (your suggested plan): technically scrap the b16a heads I have (1 of which is nearly ready to go), and save up $$$ for a year+ to build the bottom end, then probably another year+ to get head to necessary strength/durability. I would eventually arrive at a motor capable of destroying the ground it looks at and more reliable then an atomic clock. It would definitely take a good amount of time before getting the added "fun" effect of vtec, and would have an estimated cost: thousands.


I hope it doesn't seem like i'm being to offensive/defensive or anything, its just I don't want to go straight to completely building my car when I hardly know anything about how it works. Like for the build, I would want to completely build it, not just certain parts, thus me not wanting to build it partly just for the swap. If it comes to be that I can't get a working, reliable build with my current plan, then so be it, I'll have to wait till I can build it up. I will not be sacrificing fun for reliability, which is why I have come here to ask some specific questions about my plan/build.




p.s. I thought the 94 integras already put down 130whp stock? If so why would I lose horsepower by adding a vtec head?

 

My argument for building the block first is that the only advantage to VTEC is that it enables the head to make power at high engine speeds (on the secondary cam) witout sacrificing driveability or low-end power (on the primary cam). It doesn't increase the height of the powerband (VTEC and non-VTEC engines peak out at the same level of torque) -- rather, it extends the powerband into higher engine speeds.

Wherever your rev limit is set to, that's the power you're going to make. If you leave your rev limit at LS levels, you'll make LS power. If you raise it to GS-R levels, you make GS-R power, and so on. Of course, there are other ways to improve power by improving the efficienc of the engine (i.e. with breather mods), or the displacement, but pound-for-pound the difference between a GS-R and an LS with the same breather mods will be the rev limit.

Since the LS is rpm-limited both on the top-end and the bottom-end, I recommend that you wait a little longer until you can build the bottom end for speed. Then you can put on a cheap head with GS-R internals, have an engine that can take advantage of VTEC, and enjoy it until you can spend the other $1000 or more needed to finish off the head.

The alternative is that you have an engine that can't rev, and therefore can't make power, with a set of VTEC cams that you'll never use at their intended operating range and that will be very poorly matched to your compression.

It's up to you of course, but if I were you I'd think about getting the block done first.

The 120 whp thing is arbitrary. Whatever your dyno is set up to read the LS will make ~20-25 whp less than a GS-R.

 

Oh, ok. I always thought that vtec engaging allowed more room in the engine for intake, thus giving more power.


I guess I do have an ecu that can rev to 7700 (which I believe to be fairly close to GSR), so in addition to what I have already planned, what else would I need to safely rev to 7700? From what I've read rod bolts and bearings are the only things I would need to get to 8ish rpms.
If I can get to 7700, then I should have a relatively worthwhile swap, right?

 

block girdle will help out the Ls mains... as it sits you would be better off selling the heads and throwing a small "junkyard" turbo kit on the ls and make much more power

T3 Volvo... 100 bucks
Cast Iron... 80 bucks or less
Dsm 440 injectors 80 bucks
Ebay intercooler piping or steel piping (exhaust shop) 100 bucks
DSM intercooler 40-120 bucks Just shop around
Hondata S200 or S300 200 - 500 bucks
tial or turbosmart wastegate 100-200
HKS BOV 50-150

Thats around 900 bucks and will get you a far better WHp then a on the cheap ls/vtec, all you have to do it look around and look for deals. I picked up a built h22 for 400 bucks sleeved and all, cause some guy was going to get his car repoed... The deals are out there you just have to search

 

But I don't really want to do turbo (especially with out a built engine). I feel it is a sort of "*****" way out. I do realize that doing a stock bottom vtec swap won't give me much, but it will be more than what I already have. And at least I'd be able to say, "yea, I did lsvtec" instead of "yea, I threw in some junkyard tubro".

My plans are to eventually build lsvtec from the ground up (complete bottom end, complete head, all brand new high performance parts), and the reason I am not wanting to just save up for that first (it is a very good point, and I have thought about it) is because this is my first engine swap/build, and I want to start small.




All that aside, I have a few more questions for my swap as I prepare to swap the heads.
>What tools will I need? I have a standard wrench and screw driver set, no special tools.
>Will I need to drain my oil before taking off my current head?
>What valve cover gasket (and any others will I need)... I already bought a b18c1 16 valve vtec valve gasket, but have not opened it because I am not completely sure what I need


Any other little things that haven't been covered in the write-ups would be great to know.
Thanks

 

Does anybody know if I purchased the right valve gasket set?
What about special tools?

 

you'll have good flow but peppier.. not by much if any. Several years ago I've thought about throwing just the head on but it will net you nothing for your efforts.

Doing things twice will ultimately cost you way more when you could start doing it now. You're going to be paying double for gaskets/seals/belts/water pump those should not be reused and will probably end up costing you a couple hundred right there. You could find a cheap b16 to throw in for more pep.

Do it right the first time.. I've sunk 10 grand into a LSV and its still beating as if I first finished her 4 years ago. Turbo would have been better but 9k-10krpm is why you're doing vtec in the first place. This was my first build motor. It doesn't matter if you're just slapping on the head now or doing a full motor. I spent a year researching and getting parts and tools ready. If you're asking about valve cover gaskets to use you're far from even working on just the head. LSVs are dated anyways....In the 3+ years you're going to save up, you could have a K series for cheap.

 

Yes, after fiddling around a bit, I have finally come to my senses and have agreed that this swap will not be worth my time. I have decided to switch over to a b20z vtec swap. Bottom end will have new water pump, oil pump, rods/pistons(I believe).

 

Same basic principles apply. B20 blocks are cheaper so you'll have more money to spend upgrading the internals, but they are more finicky than LS-V at high engine speeds. So make sure you read up!

 

thanks, about what is the average running prices of b20 blocks?

 

Hey,
so i know this is a pretty old thread, but I figure I might as well update, then start an entire new thread.
Just wanted to thank everyone who posted on here, to help point me in the right direction with my build. I have come to the realization that cheap isn't the way to go in the car world.
That being said, I'd also like to post up my build-in-progress for opinions:

b20z block
-mildly built with rs race pistons, acl bearings, and connecting rods
-new type r oil and water pumps
-all new seals, GE vtec kit
-11.5:1

b16 head
-new bwr springs and retainers
-new s2 pro 1 cams
-new bwr intake manifold
-s2 adjustable cam gears
-used 3" dc sports intake
-new cam seals
-new arp head studs

misc
-new walbro 255 fuel pump
-id 1000cc fuel injectors
-used (1 owner) full 3" kakimoto racing exhaust system...supposedly super rare, and that my integra is probably the only teg with it.
-new bwr lca's
-new hasport motor mounts
-30 new fender washers

planned
-new aem 3" cai system
-tuning on s300
-b16 transmission
-front upper strut bar
-all new suspension (s2 or bwr)



Since it has not yet been tuned, I don't have any dyno stats, but if people are interested, I can see about getting some when the time comes. I'm actually kind of curious as to what I'll be making, so if anyone can make a guess, it would be interesting to see.

 

Looking forward to seeing your results. Should be very strong. I'm jealous of 2.0 L.

You'll definitely need a professional tune for that car before you drive it hard. Make sure you've got the valve clearances where they need to be.

 

Valve clearances are good, verified by 2 mechanics...

...Car was in an accident (not because of speeding/racing), and tuning has been put on hold, as funds set aside for tuning were used for repairs. Damage was 80% cosmetic...Which leads me to the update for this build in progress.

replaced body kit/aftermarket bumpers with OEM bumpers (front bumper still waiting to be paint matched, rear is close match), mishimoto performance radiator, and seibon oem style carbon hood.


Need a job to get tuned, so tuning may not be for a while

 

i would not use the 1000cc injectors unless you are going to boost. may cause some erratic idling.

 

he's fine with the ID1000s.