and do you like it? I have megasquirt and seem to be one of two in the tri-county area that have it. Do you find it user-friendly?

 

Nah. For hondas, its beyond archaic for use (worse than uberdata). Only the Neon N/A guys use that now.

 

Some of the AE86 and Miata kids still use it.

 

what is so archaic about it if you dont mind me asking?

 

Megasquirt has been advancing their hardware and software over the years making it much more user friendly. there is a wide range of vehicles that still use and still swear by it. are there other companies out there making better products? of course. for instance, for the Honda and VW community, they have dedicated companies that specialize in EMS for their specific applications such as Hondata and 034 Motorsport. Megasquirt is nice because its cheap and still has most of the same controls as the more expensive units. biggest problem is finding a good base tune for your application. if you have that, plus somebody who knows how to work with Megasquirt to properly tune it, than it is more than worth it

 

Archaic, not really! Required for an every day Honda build, no! A chipped and tuned OBD1 ECU would be a much better choice.

I will be running an MS3 in my Accord. The available parameters for tuning are all there to be adjusted to fit exactly how you want the car to run. Is it as easy or user friendly as Hondata or an AEM EMS, Not at all. It requires a little bit more know how to make it work properly.

For someone like me who likes working with electronics and learning new things. It's a relatively cheap investment. It works on a lot of other cars & bikes. If it can run an 800whp COP, fuel injected, twin turbo SB V8. I think it can run my N/A 2.4L I4 Honda engine.

 

i know there are great ems available that work well with a certain group (hondata-honda, cobb-subaru, etc.) but I think it is great for overall cost and effectiveness. granted it took a while to get some of the cool features that most have had since the beginning but eh. im not tryin to convert anyone i was just kinda curious. we have a pretty decent car scene (at least some cars with decent power) and have only run into around 3 people with em. kinda makes me think it sucks but it works for the turbo fox so ohh well.

 

engine management speakingwise the ms3 can hardly be classed as archaic in my opinion.

 

I can understand that. There are a few tuners in michigan that work on the "not so common" applications, (OMni GLH turbochargers, miatas, Turbo Spirits/Shadows, and even MR2s. ) But again, from personal experience and feedback from the tuners that have used Megasquirt, even the MS3, they still found it very archaic in comparison to on older FAST system, or even Speed Pro, due to the lack of resolution of the timing (again, from tuner's feedback)

I personally still didn't find it user-friendly at all, but people would say the same for Power FC, which I use all the time for my Hondas and Miatas

 

You are absolutely correct, it is not a point and click or plug-n-play friendly system. It's tuning range is vast and you need to know a lot about your engine, fuel injectors, ignition and all of your other PGM-FI sensors in order for it to work well. It's built to work in conjunction with multiple engine sensor manufacturers. Most Honda EMS systems are built for only Honda and a select few aftermarket sensors, MAP & WBO2 being the obvious.

I would like to know more about why the tuners say that it has a lack of resolution in the timing. Keep in mind that I am just learning all about the MS engine management and how it's ignition works. However, most of the other Honda tuning programs that I have are pretty much plug and play and the ignition is hidden. Any changes are pretty much point and click. Most of them don't have any ignition alternatives without adding more external components.

Even on the MSII you can add 4 400v-500v ignition drivers and run a 2 wire COP ignition system. Complete with a high resolution dual trigger wheel ignition setup, with stock Honda sensors. The same ignition systems that are just now becoming a big deal with Hondata and AEM. Again I'm not a professional tuner so I'm not 100% on what they/you are referring to as a lack of resolution.

FAST systems are also 3x the price, might as well go with an EAM on a Honda. I am not doubting that they are easier to use, and may or may not have better resolution. I'm looking at $$$ spent vs end product. I figure that if I am going to learning to tune myself. I'll do a lot of research and go from there. Anyone looking to DIY should figure out how much detail you really want to get into with it before you start. Other wise have someone else tune it that already knows what they are doing.

Kind of like Crome Pro, it's fallen behind, but it still works for a pretty large portion of Honda owners who are modding their cars.

 

Understandable. I was talking about the older FAST systems that were out there as a secondary market, and not a new one. Believe it or not, especially for the Honda Aftermarket, there are much more usable/affordable used systems that are available for the low budget person than even megasquirt new. For those DIY people who are bold enough to learn a system on their own, that secondary market has far more availability and even support, than megasquirt could ever offer. Especially if the user finds themselves in over their head and needs a supportable system, they won't find much help with megasquirt unless they luck out on finding another DIY person that is more knowledgable than they are.

 

16x16 resolution which interpolates is not enough resolution for a honda for fuel and spark??
and with map switching enabled twice as much?

cmon man. not the old "my ems has more resolution than your ems thing"

i agree tho its not plug and play for any car and for the lazy just plug in and drive to your tuner crowd there are better alternatives.

 

now my question on it is does anyone make jumper harness to make it a true plug and play if so ill it one hell the megasquirt version 1 is like 350 brand new with warrenty

 

DIYautotune makes a plug and play harness for it; 76pin Nipondenso PnP(Honda)

Including the circuitry required to do a coil on plug setup. It is odd, but you do have to buy a $38 module for fully sequential fuel injection with this kit.

 

omg thank u

 

I'm getting ready to wire my ms3x into my 01 civic. it is not straight forward. building it was, easy diagrams to follow and parts are laid out in kit.

I like the fact that it's open source. happy that they use a standard db37 connector like you find on a printer. would be much easier if all oems did that.

 

printers are db25 i believe

 

you're quite right.

Still, I was able to get a db37 connector to solder to for $1.5 from a local electronics store whereas the honda connector cost $50.

 

You get this running. I need to know how to run the wires I have ms3

 

What wiring are you looking at and for what motor setup .

you need to know :

Signal / sensors used for pick up ; using crank pick up and cam home signal ( for B/F series ) or using the OEM sensors for K series . This seems to be the most challenging part for most users to setup
Then you need to know your output setup, Coils, will you run direct fire ( coil on plug ) or the B/F distributor
then you have Vtec and or VTC
injectors is straight forward.

 

Yeah my bad, the setup. F23 with non vtec f22a6 head. external coil I have all wires ran but for the coil does it need a hot wire to the coil? And I don't know what wires to hook up from the distributor for the shielded wires that are crank position sensor. Hall or vr

 

Honda's OEM distributor for D/B/H/F series was VR sensors . ( K series uses Hall ) .

Go through this article, it details the steps to get everything working for your specific MS setup as there is some extra steps to make it work , I hope you have a 3.0 board or 3.57 ( this is why in past most people sticked with OBD1 chipped setups back in the day ) .

https://www.diyautotune.com/support/...rt-your-honda/

 

Taken from the following link : DIYAUTOTUNELINK

from DIYAUTOTUNE.

How to MegaSquirt Your Honda or Acura

If you haven’t already, please read the ‘disclaimer’ at the top of the parent page here.

Simplified spark output and VTEC control circuit schematic

Models covered:

• All 1992-2000 Civics, Del Sols, and Integras
• 1992-2001 Prelude
• 1992-2002 Accord four cylinder models

Some, but not all, OBD0 Hondas also work with this article. This covers many of the popular Honda four cylinder engines, including the D16 family, B16A, B18C, H22A, and F23A. It does not cover later coil on plug ignition systems such as the ones used on the S2000 or D17 powered Civics.

What’s covered in this article

Note that our tech ‘Install Articles’ typically focus on the most confusing part of the install process for the end user, and that’s taking control of the ignition system. This is the part of the process that’s different from car to car and hence we chime in with specifics to help where we can. For the rest of the details, the parts that are the same on every car like the coolant, intake, TPS, and o2 sensors, see the wiring section of MSExtra.com

Honda’s distributor design

Honda used a similar set of electronics across their model range during the ’90s. These designs use three separate VR sensors called CYL or CYP, TDC, and Crank or CKP. These produce 1, 4, and 24 pulses per camshaft revolution. Usually all four sensors are in the distributor, but some F and H series motors locate the TDC and CKP sensors on the crankshaft instead. There are a number of different ways you can use these sensors, but by far the easiest way is to use the TDC sensor and simply ignore the other two. The colors Honda used for the TDC sensor vary from year to year and model to model. The most common color schemes appear to be orange and blue for the positive wire and white and blue for the negative wire, or green for the positive wire and red for the negative wire. The factory wiring diagram will always show this sensor as the TDC sensor.

The ignition module in these cars lets current flow through the coil when the input is grounded. When the coil is not charging, the voltage is slightly above 5 volts, which is reflected in the circuit shown here.

If you are using a V2.2 board, it can be easier to use a GM HEI module for conditioning the VR signal. V3.0 and higher boards can read the VR signal directly.

Using the MegaSquirt-I (MSnS-E) with the Honda ignition module

This is a straightforward option with a V3.0 or V3.57 board.

MegaSquirt-I PCBv3.0 Mods Required:

• Build the VR conditioner circuit, as described in The MSExtra MS1 Manual. All our preassembled Megasquirts with the V3.0 board come with this circuit installed.
• Jumper TachSelect to VRIN.
• Jumper TSEL to VROUTINV.
• You may need to adjust the VR trim pots, R52 and R56, when this is installed on a running engine. A usual base setting is to turn them all the way counterclockwise.
• Run a jumper wire from the negative leg of D14 to IGN.

That’s it!

MegaSquirt-I PCBv3.57 Mods Required:

• Put the JP1 jumper in the 1-2 position and J1 in the 5-6 position.
• You may need to adjust the VR trim pots, R52 and R56, when this is installed on a running engine. A usual base setting is to turn them all the way counterclockwise. Note that the trim pots on these boards do not click – giving them 5 counterclockwise turns will make sure they have been turned far enough.
• Run a jumper wire from PAD1 to the center hole of the Q16 slot.
• Remove R58.

That’s it!

External Ignition Wiring

• Wire the TDC positive signal to pin 24 on the Megasquirt, and ground the negative wire from this sensor. On our preassembled wiring harness, you can use the shield on the IGN wire as a ground.
• Wire the Honda ignition module input to pin 36 on the Megasquirt.

MSnS-E Ignition Configuration

• Configured for MSnS Spark Output using LED 17.
• In TunerStudio, you MUST set Spark Output Inverted to Yes.
• For dwell settings, start with a running dwell of 3.0 and a cranking dwell of 4.0.
• The Trigger Angle setting will depend on the physical location of the trigger pickup. Often, an angle of 10 degrees will work. To set the timing with MSnS-E, go to the Spark Settings menu and set Fixed Angle to 10 degrees. You can then set the ignition timing to 10 degrees with the engine running, using a timing light (Note: Some Honda engines have a red mark for purposes of setting base timing along with a white mark at TDC. Check your service manual to see exactly where your timing marks are located. If it is at another angle like 16 degrees, you can set the fixed angle to that angle and line up the red mark). Once you have set the base timing, set Fixed Angle to -10. This will tell MSnS-E to use the timing map.

Using the MegaSquirt-I (MSnS-E) with a 7 Pin HEI module

If you happen to have a V2.2 board, using a HEI module can be easier than building a VR conditioner input circuit on a board that never had one. MSExtra.com has detailed information about how to set up Megasquirt to work with an HEI ignition. This write-up uses slightly different pins.

MegaSquirt-I PCBv2.2 Mods Required:

• The input mods are to invert the input signal from the HEI module’s tach signal. The HEI module will ground pin 24 to trigger a spark input.
• Remove D5, D8, and R10.
• Replace D8 with a 1.3 k resistor. You may substitute a resistor between 1.3 k and 2.0 k.
• Remove the jumper from XG1-XG2. Jumper XG1 to the right (non-banded) side of D5.
• Solder a jumper from the lower hole where R10 used to be (the hole nearest U4) to the upper lead of R11. This will provide a 5 volt pull-up.
• You will use LED 17 and LED 19 as outputs.
• Solder a 1 k resistor from the negative lead of D17 (it’s marked with a small – sign) to the right lead of R23 to provide a 5 volt pull-up on the output.
• Run a wire from the negative terminal of D17 to jumper X12.
• Now you will add the equivalent mod to D19.
• Solder a 1 k resistor from the negative lead of D19 to the right lead of R27.
• Run a wire from the negative terminal of D19 to jumper X11.
• That’s it!

External Ignition Wiring

• For this one, you’ll remove the stock Honda ignitor outright.
• Connect the positive terminal of the coil to the stock coil wire and to the + pin on the HEI module.
• Connect the negative terminal of the coil to the C pin on the HEI module.
• Wire the distributor’s VR sensor to the HEI module VR inputs.
• The R pin is the HEI module’s tach output. Connect it to pin 24 on the Megasquirt, or the Tach pin on the relay board. Note that the DIY Autotune wiring harness has a shielded wire – connect only the inner wire to this pin!
• Connect the E pin to pin 27.
• Connect the B pin to pin 25.

MSnS-E Ignition Configuration

• Under Codebase and Output Functions, set HEI Ignition to “GM 7pin HEI” and the other options to Off.
• Set LED 17 function to Spark Output A, and LED 19 function to Spark Output B.
• In Spark Settings, set the Trigger Angle to 10 degrees and set Spark Output Inverted to No.
• To set the timing with MSnS-E, go to the Spark Settings menu and set Fixed Angle to 10 degrees. You can then set the ignition timing to 10 degrees with the engine running, using a timing light. Once you have set the base timing, set Fixed Angle to -10. This will tell MSnS-E to use the timing map.
• Under dwell settings, set dwell control to fixed duty and the spark output duty cycle to “Minimal for HEI4.”

Using the MegaSquirt-II PCBv3 with the Honda ignition module

MegaSquirt-II PCBv3.0 Mods Required:

• Build the VR conditioner circuit, as described in the MSExtra MS2 Manual. All our preassembled Megasquirts with the V3.0 board come with this circuit installed.
• Jumper TachSelect to VRIN.
• Jumper TSEL to VROUTINV.
• You may need to adjust the VR trim pots, R52 and R56, when this is installed on a running engine. A usual base setting is to turn them all the way counterclockwise.
• Jumper JS10 to IGBTIN and IGBTOUT to IGN.
• Install a TIP120 or similar switching transistor in the Q16 slot. You will not be using this to drive the coil directly so you do not need a transistor meant for serving as an ignition module, although an ignition transistor like a BIP373 will work too.

That’s it!

MegaSquirt-II PCBv3.57 Mods Required:

• Put the JP1 jumper in the 1-2 position and J1 in the 5-6 position.
• You may need to adjust the VR trim pots, R52 and R56, when this is installed on a running engine. A usual base setting is to turn them all the way counterclockwise. Note that the trim pots on these boards do not click – giving them 5 counterclockwise turns will make sure they have been turned far enough.
• Jumper JS10 to IGBTIN.
• Install a TIP120 or similar switching transistor in the Q16 slot. You will not be using this to drive the coil directly so you do not need a transistor meant for serving as an ignition module, although an ignition transistor like a BIP373 will work too.

That’s it!

External Ignition Wiring

• Wire the TDC positive signal to pin 24 on the Megasquirt, and ground the negative wire from this sensor. On our preassembled wiring harness, you can use the shield on the IGN wire as a ground.
• Wire the Honda ignition module input to pin 36 on the Megasquirt.

Ignition Configuration:

• Trigger offset = 10 (this will vary, depending on the distributor orientation, see notes at the end of the article)
• Ignition Input Capture to ‘Falling Edge’
• Cranking Trigger to ‘Trigger Rise’
• Coil Charging Scheme to ‘Standard Coil Charging’
• Spark Output to ‘Going High (Inverted)’

Set the dwell to 3.0 ms.

More information on setting Trigger Offset:

You must also set the initial position of the trigger (called the ‘trigger offset’), then check it using the Trigger Wizard in TunerStudio (Tools Menu). The trigger offset setting will vary according to your distributor position (where it is in rotation) but you’ll need to set it properly… Basically you use the Trigger Wizard and adjust the ‘trigger offset’ and/or twist your distributor until the advance number in the Trigger Wizard matches what you’re reading with your timing light. The +/- buttons on the trigger wizard will adjust your trigger offset. You’ll need to use these buttons and a timing light to make the number on your light, and the big number on the left in the Trigger Wizard, match up.

Here’s the information on this:

Before tuning your advance table, be sure to use a timing light to verify that your ‘trigger offset‘ is calibrated. Changing the Trigger Offset in TunerStudio will not change the displayed advance, instead, it changes the actual advance as seen with a timing light. Your goal is to make these two match.

To do this, get your engine warmed-up (otherwise the timing moves as the temperature increases) and idling, then use a timing light to verify to be certain your actual advance as shown by a timing light equals your the advance display on the advance gauge in TunerStudio. (8, in this case). (Note that positive numbers denote BTDC, and negative numbers denote after TDC.)

Image courtesy of Bowling and Grippo

IAC Valves

These Hondas all used a PWM IAC valve. This valve runs at a frequency around 500 Hz, so in MS1/Extra you will need to set the frequency to 20, while in MS2 Bowling & Grippo code you enter the number 500 directly. V3.57 boards need no modifications to control this valve, while V2.2 and V3.0 boards will need a TIP120 transistor, like the one included in our MK-PWMIAC mod kit.

VTEC control

While the ECU normally grounds devices to activate them, the VTEC solenoid gets 12 volt power from the factory ECU. The easiest way to control this is to add a relay control circuit to the Megasquirt and use a relay to power the VTEC control circuit. With Megsaquirt-I, you will just set the RPM where it activates, while Megasquirt-II also lets you set a minimum throttle position at the same time.

This circuit shows a more complex VTEC control circuit that does not use a relay:



The point labeled “To MS CPU” connects directly to any of the processor output pins used for spare outputs.

 

Yeah I have ms3 imma studie it