I would like some to hear from people who have seen this time of dyno and have found a way to resolve it.

B18c1
PR3 81.5 pistons
GSR rods ARP rod bolts
GSR crank
cylinders bored and honed
P72 head
S2 pro series springs
S2 ti retainers
S2 pro series high comp valves
S2 pro 2 cams
mfactory gears
S2 pro series intake manifold
Blox 68mm tb
3 inch intake with vstack
JDM ITR cast header
stock gsr cat with 2.5 inch flange
stock civic ex exhaust
B16 trans
stock B16 flywheel
ACT stage 2 clutch

stock injectors, pump, new OEM fuel filter, B&M FPR set to 38psi, tuned using crome on a mustang dyno at 2100 feet of altitude. Runs 15.1 @ 93 at the track in a 97 dx coupe.


low cam tuning

low cam and then VTEC engaged losing tons of power

final tuning with VTEC set at 7300... flat curve for about 3k rpm


I know the exhaust is restrictive but this setup should be good for close to 200whp, thoughts?

 

Your choking that motor to death. Look at what rpm your hp and torque curves cross... about 7400rpm on the second graph tuning for vtec. Thats indicitative of a motor needing to breath. Having to set vtec at such a high rpm to get a smooth curve is also indicative of an extremely restrictive setup.

Were the cams ever degreed in?

With that setup your also near maxing out the stock injectors. Running stock injectors at their limit will yeild a less than ideal spray pattern. Get a good header and 3 inch exhaust system. Upgrade your injectors to around 440cc/min to accomodate any future plans and get a walboro 255 fuel pump to keep up with the new injectors.

Go get it re-tuned and there should be a significant difference.

 

exactly what 98 says, he did the same thing and cant make power for **** with the new set of cams he has. Why would you do all the motor work and pretty much forget your exhaust was built for a dam single cam d series(i believe).

Im not exactly sure about NA but the new ID 725s are known to make more power than most the other injectors, if you got green maybe go that way

 

I really did just do pretty much the exact same damn thing. Lol. Funny how that works.

 

I plan to change the full exhaust pump and injectors but before spending money I wanted to se if you guys thought something else could be wrong.

I have a hard time believing i<ll see 60whp from changing a full exhaust.

I already have an smsp big tube header and 2.5 inch test pipe but don<t want to install them before a retune as I<m afraid I<ll hurt the engine if I put these on with the current tune.

The exhaust will be next when funds are available. I just want to make sure I spend in the right areas.

The cams are also not set correctly right now witht the intake at 0 and exhaust at 4 marks on vernier style gears, that<s what my tuner set them at.

Thoughts?

 

Sounds like you are choking it off with exhaust, but again all-motor engines are inconsistent, some make good power, some make no power.
Why did you put the Fuel pressure at 38lbs?

 

Well you definitly will not see 60+ hp from an exhaust, but you will see a good 20+hp.

Those cam gear settings are off. When degreeing cams you really need a tuner that knows what he is doing. I'd take your ride else where.

Also with low numbers like that I would do a leak down test to make sure everything else is right.

 

clutch slip? on the first graph it seems to drop tq right at the beginning like it was holding at part throttle and started slipping? could also explain the drastic drop when vtec was engaged earlier, the greater power gain spun it harder and it started to grab up top? iDK, just giving ideas. but ya, that exhaust is also holding you up, but not that much. The DynoDynamics i've seen, also seem to read 10-15% lower than DynoJets. And IMO that motor is over cammed. I've seen way too many cars come in with cams too large for their setup, swap them out for much smaller cams and gain anywhere from 5-20whp

 

were those cams degreed the biggest mistake i have seen on here with pro series cams are people not degreeing those cams and every time they weren't degreed they made crap for hp they are called pro series for a reason.

 

cams were degreed by my machine shop and they were at 0 int 1 ex but my tuner moved them.

The car did not slip on the dyno and my tuner set the pressure at 38 psi and as you can expect with these numbers the stock injectors are currently nowhere near maxed out.

compression is 220psi across but I don't have a leakdown tester.

The engine also consumes oil but only when you punch it the first second after you do there is a puff and then nothing all the way to 9k rpm. Would that be seals in the head or rings?

Everything on this motor is brand new and all gaskets are OEM new ones.

The engine revs fast and pulls hard to 6k and then nothing happens it tops out. The VTEC engages and is quite loud even for a stock exhaust.

Forgot to mention it runs a chipped P28 and the car is converted to OBD1 with a rywire jumper for the ecu and the dizzy. The dizzy is OBD1 for an SIR II.

 

anyone ever experience such low numbers out of a built B18 before?

Even with the exhaust there has to be something else wrong..

 

Ive seen this mean of drop in power from mechanical timing being off, even by one tooth.

 

that is a possibility but it looked bang on when I first installed the timing belt and it hasnt moved.

I may be able to get my hand on a 2.5 inch exhaust soon and get a retune. We will also play with the cam gears as I am certain the exhaust gear is quite off.

I just hope it<s not something in the dizzy or something somewhere else.

The car feels and drives fine other than the power.

 

Higher vtec engagement point is due to the motor choking.
You need to be at least @ 45psi of pressure.. where as stock fp is 42.

On my last b20vtec and a few customer cars that i did, when they required a higher vtec xover, 6400+, we dropped the exhaust and vtec was liked int he mid to upper 5's on pro2 cams.

Right now on a 3'' exhaust I've seen most pro2's like 5400-5800rpms. My personal motor liked 5500, right where the low cam begin to flatten out, and the high cam really started to take off on the fueling maps.

You need to double check your timing. The pro2's require more seperation then just "1" move. If you're using the following cam gears -[For every one 1 cam gear degree = 2 crank degrees] you should be @ +2 exhaust and 0 intake - If you're using [ 1 cam gear degree = 1 crank degree] you should be @ +3 or 4 depending on the numbers you came up with.


It sounds like something is most definitely off. Its also very possible the chip itself, needs to be reburned and is bad.


Turn vtec off, take it down the street and lay on it.. if it pulls nicely out till around 7500rpms, then you got a choking problem.

 

that I can confirm it does it pulls fine out of VTEC to 7500.

The cam gear is a 4 degrees on the exhaust and it<s the stype that does 1 mark equals 2 degrees so the ex is technically at 8 degrees right now...

I think combining that with the stock exhaust and 240 000kms cat is hurting it.

I<ll save up and grab an exhaust when I have the funds.

2.5 inch of 3 inch for this setup?

 

I would say 3" inch would work well with this setup. Good luck, keep us posted

 

took the exhaust off finally, crappy weld job on the 2.5 inch flange on the GSR cat. Stupid exhaust shop...

Also installed a better header and getting a 3 inch exhaust in about 3 weeks






Probably a big part of my problem....



Another part of it..

 

Your exhaust is horrendous! Did your tuner move the cam gears around on the dyno or just set them to that point without testing them at each change to see if they were being moved in the correct direction? The settings don't sound right to me.