So fellas since my stuff ended up in solodc's thread and confused the living hell outta some people I figured I'd post it here to try to clarify.

The setup is in an obd1 converted 1989 crx.

My exact motor setup is as follows:

B18C1 Block
-Gsr crankshaft
-Gsr rods
-pct civic type r pistons

B18C5 Head
-oem valves
-Skunk2 Pro-Series valve springs and retainers
-AllM0T0R's custom cams
-Skunk2 Pro-Series cam gears

Additional Stuff
-Skunk2 Pro-Series Intake Manifold
-70mm Throttle Body
-No Name 3 inch intake pipe
-rc 310cc injectors
-Crappy Kamikaze 4-1 header with 2 inch collector
-Full 2 inch inside diameter cat back

So I went to JE Import Performance to be tuned on their DynaPack system and ended up with the odd dyno graph that most of you have seen.

Up until about 2 hours ago I had no idea that the car only had a 2 inch exhaust system. To make a long story short when the car was originally put together I was to young to have a hand in it so some interesting parts were used. I'm talking back in the late 90's when most people though you needed back pressure for our motors to function properly.

Any way we stumped their tuner with a graph he hadn't seen in the 15 years he's been tuning b-series motors so we went looking for explanations. Of course the most obvious thing that we didnt think to check was the exhaust. So after many long phone conversations with Derek we figured out the motor was being choked to death. This was saturday two days ago mind you. I just found the problem today.

So rewind to two days ago when we were at the dyno. They put the car on and it made 150whp on the chip Derek sent us to run it on. This was the same chip the car trapped at 93mph on so we were thinking something was up from the get go.

About an hour later their tuner comes in and says that he thinks the car is falling out of vtec after it engages so we were like wtf? So we let him diagnose it. He checked oil pressure at the check port on the head and it was 90psi when vtec engaged so no problem there. He then checked the vtec solenoid its self by swapping it with a known good one to rule it out. Still the same problem and wierd graph. After that his theory of it falling out of vtec kind of fell appart when everything checked out.

So then he points to an igniton problem. The distributor is a known good obd2 gsr/type r with a new cap and rotor. He says it might be a sensor in the distributor that can go bad an will not throw a cel code. So we're like ok maybe thats part of the cause of the strange graph.

At that point we gave up because there was no point in going into a 3rd hour of tuning with an unknown problem that couldnt be pin pointed. The car was tuned perfectly on low cam and tuned theoretically on high cam based off of low cam. The afrs were spot on all the way through so we figured what the hell might as well drive it on the street before we leave. Let me tell you that thing with its little 2 inch header and exhaust system went like a bat outta hell. Way faster than the supposed 180whp it was putting down.

So to get a true answer we are going to the 1/4 mile on friday to see what it traps at to get a real idea of what kind of power its making. Which will probably be followed by a trip to a local dyno owner to see what kind of power it makes on a dyno jet and to get a graph.

After talking with Derek and JE's tuner they use an sae correction factor of 0 and zoom in so you see in great detail the hp and torque dips down to like 1hp or 1 wtq because they use a dynapack system. In short our graph may have looked a lot worse than it was.

I'm posting the graph below. From the talks with Derek we thought the car was being choked to death based on where the hp and toque curves were crossing. I have definitly confirmed that today with my findings. I want to know what everyone else thinks. We know it wants to breath, but we are still wondering about the wavyness of the hp and torque curves between 5500 and 7500 rpms.

We think that using an obd2 distributor on an obd1 converted car on a dynapack dyno may have had something to do with it. My current understanding is that obd2 cars use a sensor by the crankshaft and a sensor in the distributor for detirmining rpms. Could using an obd2 distributor have had the effect shown on the graph because the block didn't have the sensor by the crankshaft?

Derek recommended switching to an obd1 distributor to solve the wavy lines problem. What do you guys and girls think? I dont doubt Derek at all, I'm just looking for other thoughts.

Regardless of what the dyno says myself and my dad are both very happy with the car and the cams; especially given we could pick up another 10whp or 15whp easy with a decent header and exhaust.

Sorry for the long post. The dyno graph is below. Let me know what you think. For me the dyno is a tuning tool and the real numbers will come at the track.

 

Good job Brody Trammell
Are you going to degree the cams?

 

dam dude after hearing that i want a set of dereks cams, wish i woulda knew about them a while ago.

I put a obd2 dizzy in my obd1 teg and the car ran just the same, so no the dizzy will not affect you. I feel the same way with 180whp its like the dam thing makes maybe 140 to me. Just dont have the pull i wish it did.

Why not just unbolt the exhaust at the track and see what it does, if your doin 93 on a basemap dude it definetely has a ton of potential.

Are you going to swap the header and exhaust sometime soon?

 

Thanks Tonio. Lol

If by degree you mean cam gear settings that has been done. If you are referring to putting gauges on the motor and degreeing them in that manner well...I dont know how to do that.

 

I just dropped the system from the header back today and found out it was only a 2 inch system. So its going to the track open header because thats the best I can do at the moment.

I'm going to change it out towards the end of this year and do a short 3 inch system with an smsp b19 rep header. Probably run four feet or so of 3 inch pipe past the header and just point it down and go with it. Then go get it re-tuned.

 

I firmly believe that even with the crappy header and crappy exhaust, on another dyno i think it would be a easier 190+whp motor..

If the gains felt by your butt dyno are true, i dont see why this car wouldn't trap 97-98+mph..

I'm glad you're happy with the car as it drives and feels.. dyno numbers aren't everything.. the changes made to the cams were for the better..and i think you'll see when you go down the track.

Thank for the trust and confidence.

 

Atleast you know the car has the potential with some boltons dude, all the hard work is pretty much out of the way

 

the OBD2 dizzy is the same internally as the OBD1 unit.

good luck at the track.

 

Goodluck to you 98gsrintegra and getting those track times that your after! we got done tuning my motor on sunday and def felt a good 10-15whp increase in power thru out the curve with dereks cams compared to my old crowers. i think derek is right about getting a better header/exhaust combo, I have a very free flowing exhaust and the cams just absolutely kick on my setup. will be getting it on a dynojet this wednesday.

 

CTR pistons

 

Yesss Sir. Lol

 

If you don't hit 98 trap speed feel free to slap yourself silly. Lol

I did 98 with a stock engine just boltons

 

What are the specs of these cams? Or is it a secret?

 

Good luck at the track. MPH can give you an idea of HP, but dont rely on it solely to estimate your HP. Thats what dynos are for. Many factors like wheelspin, weight, gearing all will affect your mph through the traps...

I've been seeing alot of misinformation posted lately about CKF/CKP sensors and distributors...
Heres the deal...The CKF (crank fluctuation sensor) sensor is only used for misfire diagnosis on obd2 vehicles. It has nothing to do with the distributor. This is the sensor down by the crank pulley.The ecu looks at the patterns from this sensor and if it sees a dip in the signal, it knows the cylinder that just fired is low on power (misfire), and a fault will be stored in the ecu. This has nothing to do with the CYP (cylinder position sensor) or the CKP (crank postion sensor) which are needed for spark and fuel operation...

One thing I feel that needs to be mentioned also. Keep a close eye on those cam gears. They have been known to break also. Search for " pro series cam gears cracking" and youll see what Im talking about. Id hate to see another engine damaged by faulty parts...
Good luck at the track!

 

Thanks for the info on the distributor. I'm glad to have some clarification.

Thanks for the heads up on the cam gears but I'm already aware of that.

 

Lol. You drag race on the regular. Neither myself or my dad is a skilled drag racer. The car is a road race car like scca and nasa honda challenge series so its not even setup for drag racing. We are purely trying to get an idea of hp based on trap speed.

So if we trap at 99 or 100mph it wont break my heart. Lol

 

PM AllM0T0R

 

Yea but I'm a rookie to the track also, majority of my experience is on the street.

Oh and my car has completly stock suspension with some neuspeed 1.75 springs in the front w/ some shitty 14" tires, just sayin.

Just give us at least a buck lol

 

I'd love to see 100mph+ We'll find out in a couple more days.

 

Saweeeeet. Good luck.

 

Its not that important that I know, I was just curious anyways. If its a secret you guys can keep it that ways.

 

Its no secret, but I honestly dont know the specs. Lol. As far as I know they are modified rocket m22xx's. Past that I have no idea. Thats why I told you to pm Derek. No secrets here.

 

The intake is slightly modified from the m22xx, same with the exhaust, lift was modded, duration was kept the same.. exhaust was slightly smaller, by .3mm.

What i have seen work well for OEM builds seem to work, almost exactly like the m22xx cam, for brody's car, i had to make minimal adjustments.

 

Mini Update.

Sometime next week we are taking the car to a local tuner. He doesnt tune hondas, but he is perfectly willing to strap the car down a make a couple pulls. We are purely doing this to get a graph with the same scaling as well as a correction factor.

At this point its worth the $75 to see if dropping the 2 inch exhaust system made any difference. I'm curious to see if we end up with as strange a graph as before. Considering our original graph looks like what the stock market does on a daily basis, I'm hoping it smoothes out a bit when on a different dyno.

Next update should be friday night weather permitting. Friday is the soonest I can get to a drag strip.

 

you can pretty much assume dropping the bottleneck of an exhaust helped, but also that header is a huge pos for your setup, youll probably pick a ton of power up when you switch to a real header dude, goodluck btw