What would be the best way to get the most performance out of taking a fast turn ? When you lower a car to much it causes the inside of the tire to wear faster and does'nt grip the pavement nearly as good. I have seen cars lower in the front and higher in the back maybe better for straight line racing ? And I have also seen cars Higher in the front and lower in the back , maybe better traction that way ? Or just all around as even as possible best for turns ? I want to experiment with this and actually see and feel what would be the best setup for road racing , So for anyone who races at courses what is the best setup for taking thise fast turns without sliding and looseing traction ?

 

Look up corner balancing.

 

The bold is simply not true. In autocross there are plenty of cars running massive camber. Like 6-10 degrees of camber. These guys were running ~6 seconds faster than I was. One was a national champ.

Height is much less important than spring rate in all of the scenarios you're envisioning.

Corner balancing with appropriate rates suited for your application will do more for handling than height ever will.

 

If your car is extrmeley low and you do not keep it in alignment if deff will wear tires faster .

 

You say that as if the alignment is perpetually going out because the car is lowered.

 

Op, that's what it sounds like your saying.


When you lower the car, the Toe goes out (at least on a honda) and the camber goes negative. The tire wear you are seeing and talking about is most likely coming from toe out.

You must have the toe set every time you touch the ride height of the car.

Camber will wear your tires, but not any where near as quick as toe will.

Camber is not a bad thing, and can actually help you performance wise.

 

I tell you what. Autocrossing a few weeks ago I wish I'd had some stickier tires or some steeper front camber.

 

You really should have alignment checked and adjusted at least once a year, but this is especially important if the car is lowered. I like to have my alignment checked at least once or even twice a year to keep the toe in check to prevent uneven tire wear. This was more of a problem when I had old, worn bushings.

I have new HardRace bushings in my car now, and after I had my last alignment a few weeks ago, the tech asked me to come back the first time I rotate my new tires a few months from now to see how the tires are wearing and to check the alignment angles.

 

Yeah i know and agree, just sayin imo i think a car that is slightly lowered will handle better with the right equipment rather than a SLAMMED car , like i mean a **** hair away from the ground . Thats how my EF was , I raised up a lil and it handles so much better.!!

 

its toooo bumpy when your basically riding on strait shocks, and that will throw u off course.

 

You're very vague.

 

Your right, I slightly lower car and one that was lowered properly will handle better.


What do you mean, strait shocks?

You aren't one of those dumb asses that take the springs out right!?

 

No i mean if you lower a car tooo much it is like you are riding on straight Struts and no spring ... u ever rode in a car that everytime u hit a bump that your ****ing head goes throught the ceiling ? thats what i mean .

 

Yep, many many many times .

 

yeah .. but back to my original question ..... do u think it better to be a lil lower in the front or vice versa or as even as possible for turns ? ive always heard for drag racing its better to have the *** end higher ?

 

If I were you I'd focus a lot less on ride height and a lot more time on spring rates, swaybar sizes, and seat time.

As long as you have good suspension travel your car will handle just as well as if it were raised either end by a small degree.

If your LCAs are flat or beyond parallel to the ground that's about when handling issues arise.

 

There is no defined ride height that is optimal. Every car is different and a lot depends on what suspension you are using(spring rates/shocks), swaybars, tire compound, tire width/height, etc..

When you lower a car, you get negative camber in the tires. For straight line this isn't optimal because you are limiting forward grip. You have a smaller contact patch on the pavement. However, negative camber is important for lateral grip. You maximize your contact patch thus getting more grip thoughout a turn.

For drag racing you'd typically want a higher rear end with stiff rear springs to reduce squat off the launch and keep weight on the front tires for grip. For cornering, this can really screw with the way your car handles. Oversteer can become an issue. Generally for our cars you want a fairly level ride height all around, maybe a tad bit lower in the back, but nothing extreme.

Slammed cars generally don't handle well because there is no suspension travel. You need to let the suspension do it's job to get the most out of it. You also screw with the geometry of the suspension when you go very low. Yeah you may see some true race cars pretty low to the ground and with very little suspension movement, but they have modified the suspension enough to make it work at its fullest and there still is enough suspension movement.



OP, majority of civics I've seen racing have a ride height where the fenders are just a tad above the tire. Some just barely tucking a little bit of the tire. But you do have to take into consideration spring rates. The lower you go, the higher the spring rate you would want. This prevents the car from riding the bump stops under hard cornering and allowing your suspension to work.

My AutoX car is set maybe about an index finger gap between front tire and fender. The rear is probably about a pinky finger between the tire and fender. It's been this height for about 4 years now with no problems. I can't really go any lower or I will run out of suspension travel. And I have some pretty stiff springs(650front 800 rear)..

 

Civicexspeedy -Thanks nice post

 

how would the 650 and 800 rear feel in the street ? lol

 

Very old mentality from the days of live rear axles, and actually was not done for the suspension.

You raised the rear of an old drag car so that under full launch squat the driveshaft is straight. This reduces wear and chance of failure on the U-joint.

The only other reason to have a positive rake is for aerodynamics, and isn't universally true for all cars anyway.

This is why it's important to understand why something is done, and not just under what circumstances it is done. Otherwise, you'll never be able to apply the knowledge to new circumstances.

For our double wishbone / multi-link equipped Hondas, front and rear ride height need to be looked at purely based on the suspension angles, not chassis height, if handling is your primary concern.

For example, due to the suspension design of a 94-01 Integra, you end up with negative rake to put the geometric RCs at about the same height, which may or may not be ideal, but is a reason some are setup this way. Mine has positive rake to help reduce understeer by keeping the rear CG higher and the rear camber less negative.

Ignore rake, put the suspension where it needs to be based purely on your needs.

Rather painful, unless you happen to only have perfectly smooth roads in your area.

 

For a street car, a reasonable ride height (within ~1-2" of stock) is desirable for more than one reason. Many fast cars in autocross, however, are basically on the ground when racing.

 

It feels like it's destroying my back, oh wait it has! I do have a bad back(bulged disk) and I'm 22yrs old.. I'm know it's not my cars fault but I do believe it has played a role in it lol. After driving an hour my back hurts.. This is why I have a nice comfy daily driver. I only drive my AutoX car to/from events now. I do not recommend those rates for anybody using their car as a DD.

 

^^^ hells yeah i feel u on that , thats y i want a smooth ride now , ive had a slipped disc twice and my back kills my driving along distance, and im only 22 also lol.