Price NOT being an issue which would you take. Pretend you are getting a free set of either. You put about 40,000mi a year on your car with about 10 auto-x events.

1. Which grips better in the dry and by how big a margin?
2. Which has stiffer sidewalls?

Please remember DO NOT consider price at all. I'm extremely rich price is not an option (insert sarcasm).

 

since cost is not an issue, why are you considering mileage?

when I see the research/engineering resources of the big tire companies (Bridgestone, Michelin) I find it hard to believe a smaller company can design a better tire. They may be able to design a very comparable tire though.

I have the feeling a lot of tires get internet reputations, some of it based on fact, and some based unfortunately on the good old internet hearsay. Last year all you heard was Kumho, Kumho, Kumho, now its Falken, Falken, Falken. Good for the price, yes, but factor out price and their advantage disappears.


[Modified by NegativeLift, 11:13 PM 9/28/2002]

 

Good point But I'd still have to go with the Azenis. So you burn thru a set every 8 months no big deal, if you have the money to burn on them, right.

 

It's not an issue. Just making sure you got the idea that I get alot of everday miles out of the tire not just sunny track days.

 

Othsu is Falken's parent company. Otshu makes some very impressive performance ATV and motorcycle tires, so it does not surprise me that they could make a good performance street tire.

Both tires are good tires in terms of traction, but the bridgestones are a tad better in the rain. Falken might have the slight edge in dry traction.

 

I agree to an extent. The praise for the 712 was always good for the money. The praise for the Azenis is for the tire itself. True, if price was no object then all the Azenis people might be running KD's.

 

SO-3 wins in my book as a better choice for a daily driver tire. The Azenis are a noisy due to their big tread blocks. Azenis are also not even close to ideal in the rain due to their...big tread blocks.

Amazingly, the same thing that makes them not-so-great as a daily driver makes them perfect for motorsports*


*provided you scrub/heat cycle/whatever them in before you hit the track

 

i wouldn't count this as anything to be overly intrigued about--the tire noise is definitely no louder than say, the drone of the muffler you may have on your car. if noise was that big an issue, i'd much rather lose my muffler first before giving up the azenis...

 

ive never really had a problem in the rain with the azenis liek i thought i would...they arent any worse then when i had my old federal ss351 tires or dunlop sp8000's..i love my azenis

 

Well if your going that far with price and money was being no object then I'd be running Azenis on my yellow '02 S4 and KDs on my blue '02 M3.

 

I have both the S03's and the Azenis'..

Hands down for the BEST in dry traction go with the Falken's...

The SO3's may be better for every day and are better in the rain as the tred gets worn down..The Azenis are OK in the rain when newer (not when BRAND new), but the Bridgestones are better in the rain altogether...And ALOT less noisy on the road at 65-70 MPH..

Jeff

 

which one of these two tires do you think has a longer life, with equal use?


[Modified by usuck, 5:24 PM 9/29/2002]

 

s03's would have longer life due to bigger treadware

 

i personally use the s03's... they are w/out a doubt the best tires i have used.. grip like a ****.. However, some of my frends use azenis and did well on the track.

I still would stand by the s03's due to longer tread life, better in the rain, and less noisy.

 

200 compared to 220 isn't that much, so i thought i would ask!


[Modified by usuck, 10:52 PM 9/29/2002]

 

I hear a lot of people complaining that Azenis don't grip as well after long hard sessions. How about the SO-3's? Azenis might grip better on dry roads, but do the SO-3 have the same problem that some Azenis users have after long runs?

 

having just driven a stock itr on s0-3's and comparing them to my car on azenis, i would go with the azenis. however, if price wasn't an option, i've heard the kd's grip just as good, have a quieter and softer ride and wear out just as fast. if anyone would like to by me 2- 225-50-15 and 2- 205-50-15's i'll be glad to test and post results.

 

Weren't KD's designed specifically for dry surfaces?

 

I think S-03s are better as a daily driver tire they do get great wet traction and dry traction but after pushing them for ten laps they started plowing for me. I had some falken ZE-502s that got even better grip after ten laps but they wore really bad.

 

You are trying to compare tires from two different categories, a hybrid street/R compound and a max street. For your parameters you want the Azenis. But do not expect it to have the same standing water wet grip as the S-03.

 

Many people comment on the performance of the Azenis in the rain. With 4/32 of tread or better, these tires perform flawlessly in the rain. Testimony... in 2001 at the Ayer, MA National Tour, Tropical Storm Allison paid us a visit on Sunday afternoon. I kept telling myself to be ready for this massive hydroplane, but it never happened. Just drove the car like it was a summer sprinkle! It kept displacing all the water (over 2" fell in 3 hours). That made me a believer, especially at the time, I was one of the first people in the Northeast to get the tire.

For those that mention standing water, well, any tire short of the Aquatread will hydroplane in standing water at highway speeds (70+ MPH). Hell, my everyday Michelins XGT's did, and so do the BFG HR4-2's on there now. Granted not as much as the Azenis, but let's remember to use discretion on the roads in bad weather as well... This is a contributing factor as to why car insurance is so high (especially here in NJ).

To get 40,000 miles as you suggested is a little optimistic, even with an alignment of 0 toe at all four corners. You may have heard horror stories about quick, uneven wear, but with a radical alignment [-.11 per side] and a heavy autocross schedule of 15-20 events per year I got the following out of the tires:

12,000+ street miles
25-30 local autocrosses (6 or more runs each)
2 National Tours
1 ProSolo

Just NOW do I have to replace them after mounting them back in June 2001. The tires worked very well until I reached the wear bars. Like most race tires, it starts to get greasy and overall grip diminishes (at autocrosses, still feels fine on the street) when you start to get down to the carcass itself. Add to this an old brake problem that led to some flat spots, which have since become uneven bald spots, thus requiring the change to the new set.

To get this performance out of anything in the sub-$100 price range is insane. At $70 each, these tires are a steal and the best alternative to a Yoko A032 or even older Victoracers.

As far as the overheating issue, if you don't do track events (which you should have R compoiunds for anyway) or have a second driver in autocrosses, you won't encounter this problem.


Anthony "Mario" Crea


[Modified by honda93, 5:34 AM 10/1/2002]

 

I read couple articles saying that azenis grip well on wet surfaces. I know they grip better than my michelins XGT (oem tires), then again, not a good comparison.

 

The Azenis grip better in the dry. The S03 is a much much better rain tire. The S03 will last much longer on the street than the Azenis. If I drove 40,000 miles per year (my God that's a lot) and autocrossed 10 events per year (my God that's few Then I would buy a second set of rims and run the Azenis for autocross and the S03's most of the time (assuming I was in STS - otherwise ti would be Hoosiers for autoX)

Speed difference for a 60 second course would probably be 0.2 - 0.8 seconds in favor of the Azenis.

 

I wish tire data wasn't so secretive, itd be so easy to shop for tires

"Hmm...here's the coefficient of grip vs. slip angle for varied loads for dry, here it is for wet, lets overlay the Azeni chart on the S-03 chart...wa-la"

 

Very well said. I have about the same events and street miles on my Azenis with the same toe I hate repeating myself over and over again.