I just got a 40 foot Motorcoach (RV) and do not want to buy another car just to tow behind it, when I have a perfectly wonderful S2000 in the garage.

I have seen posts saying it is not advisable to tow an S2000 with all four wheels on the ground, but I don't understand the reasons for the advice, and I really don't want to have to put up with the additional hassle of towing with the back wheels up on a Tow Dolly. Seems like the nose might get a little close to the road that way anyhow and maybe get my front lip ripped off....

It is a 2000 S2000 if that makes any difference. If the manual transmission is put in neutral, emerg brake off, and the key is in the on position to unlock the steering lock, what is the potential damage that can occur to the S2000 other than wearing down the battery?

Will there be transmission damage? (Wear? Oil not getting to gears? What?)

Will there be differential damage? Why?

I can't understand why turning the rear wheels by towing the car will cause damage that driving the car normally will not. Are there oil pumps for the transmission or the differential that operate when driving that would not operate when being towed?

I can envision that the individual ring and pinion gear faces being meshed during towing will be the opposite side of the gear teeth from when the engine is driving. (Same side of teeth as when in reverse) I can also understand that the ring gear driving the pinion shaft gear may cause some strange friction with the gear ratios, but with the transmission in neutral there should be very little load at the drive shaft.

What am I missing?

 

I found this just by google it.

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/auto-p...ve-vehicle.htm

 

where to start..

 

If you have a 40ft RV with the torque to boot, why not add a flatbed dolly to it then?

 

dagle - Backing up with a towed car behind a motorcoach is almost impossible due to the fact that the rear wheels of the coach are so far in front of the hitch ball (about 10 feet or so). The slightest twitch of the coach steering wheel causes the towed item (car, dolly or flatbed) to turn in a much exaggerated manner. The towed vehicle MUST be detached from the coach and backed away separately if you must back up more than a few feet.

In the event of getting into a position where it is necessary to back up the motorcoach (made a wrong turn, accident blocking the road, cannot clear a low overpass with the RV) with a tow car on the ground, it can just be unhooked and backed away so the coach can then be backed out of the situation by itself. If the car is on a dolly or a flatbed, the car must be taken off and driven away - then what?? I will need to have a tow hitch on the back of the S2000 so I can tow away the dolly or flatbed. Besides when I arrive at a campground, i have to find a place to store the flatbed or dolly. No thanks.

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LIQUIDGSR, That referenced article is typical of what is on the net, and part of the reason why I'm trying to get a more direct knowledgeable answer on this Honda specific site. There are significant contradictions in the following two adjoining paragraphs from that article:

Tow dollies, which lift only the front wheels off the ground, can also be good choice. But these are most effective for front-wheel-drive cars since they lift the drive wheels off the ground. If you plan to tow a rear-wheel-drive vehicle on a tow dolly, YOU’LL HAVE TO DISCONNECT AND REMOVE THE DRIVESHAFT SO YOU DON’T DAMAGE THE TRANSMISSION.. [source: Penske Truck Rental].
A tow bar is another option. It's a rigid set of bars in the shape of a triangle. One point of the triangle has a coupler that attaches to the ball hitch on the tow vehicle. The wide end of the triangle attaches to the bumper of the vehicle being pulled. All four wheels of the towed vehicle roll on the ground. IF YOUR TWO-WHEEL-DRIVE VEHICLE HAS MANUAL TRANSMISSION, YOU CAN JUST POP IT IN NEUTRAL AND DISENGAGE THE PARKING BRAKE TO TOW IT WITH A TOW BAR. But if the transmission is automatic, you'll need some accessories to protect it.

The article then goes on to discuss drive shaft quick disconnects and auxiliary oil pumps for the automatic transmission

I CAPITALIZED the two sentences that contradict each other. (I went to the source Penske site and it makes no distinction between towing a car with manual or an automatic transmission). I believe their statement about disconnecting and removing the drive shaft should relate only to automatic transmission rear wheel drive vehicles, not a manual like my S2000. Anyway, they are in business to rent you a trailer or a dolly, not to promote towing with a tow bar..

Why would you need to disconnect the drive shaft if the rear wheel drive car has the front wheels on a tow dolly, but all you need to do to tow it with all four wheels down is put the transmission in neutral??

The expertise of Mr Benjamin, the writer of the referenced article is further reflected in the sentences: It (the tow bar) is a rigid set of bars in the shape of a triangle. One point of the triangle has a coupler that attaches to the ball hitch on the tow vehicle. The wide end of the triangle attaches to the bumper of the vehicle being pulled. ‘attaches to the BUMPER ?? of the vehicle being towed’ !!?? Give me a break. Sounds like a real expert to me….. However, I like the part that says if it has a manual transmission you can just put the tranny in neutral to tow it with a tow bar. Confirms my thoughts exactly.

Now I think all I need to worry about is the differential, and that may be a big problem. I just read that the S2K uses a Torsen differential, so I did a search on Torsen. Found that the Torsen may be my downfall because (at least in the Torsen used in the Audi A8 to drive the 4WD system) it works on the principal of a worm and pinion. I found this statement on the Audiworld.com forum:
“The spinning worm gear can easily drive the pinion, but backdriving the worm gear via the pinion requires a lot of torque.” (Backdriving as when towing the car) “And, as you attempt to backdrive the worm faster, exponentially more torque is required. Think of a clockwork mechanism to envision the worm and pinion arrangement.
The amount of torque required to backdrive a Torsen differential is determined by the pitch, diameter, and number of worm and pinion gearsets. And, like any torque control mechanism, heat is generated when it is used.”

The heat buildup would wipe out the rear end if a similar worm/pinion arrangement is used in the S2000 Torsen, and it is towed for more than a few miles.

I have sent an email to Torsen to get their input. I will update this thread with their response when (if) I get one.

 

Here is a copy of my note to Torsen, with their response following.... HOORAY! Looks like I'm good to go as long as I keep both rear wheels of the S2K on the ground with the same size tires.

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From: xxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 11:33 PM
To: torsen@torsen.com
Subject: Towing a 2000 Honda S2000

I recently purchased a Motorcoach and would like to use my 2000 Honda S2000 as my 'towed vehicle', towing with all four wheels on the ground, to use when we arrive at our destination campgrounds.

The S2000 has a manual 6 speed transmission, so it should be able to be towed with the transmission in neutral. However there is a question about towing the S2000 with all four wheels on the ground, due to the Torsen differential used in the car.

Can you elaborate whether significant damage is probable by towing with the drive wheels on the ground?

If differential towing damage is likely with the unit as installed, are there any modifications that could be made to significantly reduce the probability of damage by being towed?
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Torsen's response:

Subject: RE: Towing a 2000 Honda S2000
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 11:04:17 -0400
From: Torsen <torsen@torsen.com>
To: xxxxxxxx

If you have the car in neutral you should be fine as long as the tires are the same size (no mini-spare).

Thanks for the question and interest in Torsen!

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I guess the next step for me is to post an image here of the motorcoach with the S2000 in tow.

 

I don't know much about towing a vehicle, but I have always been told from people who know about towing that the drive wheels, in this situation the rear wheels, need to be off the ground. Im only guessing but the big problem is the rear diff. Anytime the wheels that drive the car are on the ground and moving without the engine and drive train pushing/pulling it will cause damage to the drive train. Again thats from what I gather and I do not in anyway presume myself to be knowledgeable in it. Good luck.

 

For the love of the S, just rent a darn car wherever you are going. Towing an S is in some manner breaking at least 3 man laws.

You'll likely spend more in petrol towing the S than renting a car.

 

ask Honda?

 

Prime example of people posting without reading..... The
Man posted his own answer, from Torsen, in an email, was the post to long to read or what? Lol

 

i wouldnt be satisfied with that answer....that guy seemed like he was just answering it to get it out of his inbox...and if you read his response, he said "it should be fine" .....not too assuring if you ask me

 

right, 'should be fine' isn't going to replace your diff if it gets burnt up somehow. ask Honda if you want a definitive answer.

 

I have returned from our 10,443 mile RV Trip, pulling our Honda S2000 the full 10,443 miles, four wheels on the ground. Additionally we drove the Honda 4,852 miles at our 47 different destinations throughout the US and Canada, for a total tire wear on the S2K of 15,295 miles.

I changed the rear-end oil with Royal Purple Oil before the trip began, and again at about 4K towed (RV driving) miles, and lastly since returning home. Checking the magnetic rear-end plug showed no unexpected metal shavings at any of the oil changes. There are no strange noises coming from the rear end.

Maybe I just got lucky, but no apparent damage to the differential.

It was a great trip and super great fun, particularly being able to drive the S2K through the National Parks, the mountain roads and the 75 MPH speed limits in many of the western states - Top down, radio blasting and the wind blowing thru our hair. Can't do the 75MPH (legally) in Florida.

 

Nice to hear your trip went well and thanks for reporting back. Good to know

 

Thanks for the update, glad to hear everything went smoothly (literally.) I've towed my S long distances and haven't had a problem either.

p.s. Did you REALLY stick to that 75mph limit?...

 

Sounds like an adventure.

On a side note, why would towing be any different than driving it? Automatic trannies I understand, but with a MT towing the drive wheels will put about 1/20th of the strain on the diff/transmission that driving will. So why would it magically blow something up? Given, it's spinning everything backwards, but so does the reverse gear.

 

Finally got...
Thanks a million. I have been researching this topic for days. There is sooo much BS out there it's amazing. Nothing like trial by fire to find out the real dope. I'm a first time Motorhome owner (2009 Fleetwood Fiesta 29vs) and have a 2007 S2K. I can't wait to take a trip like you described. By the way, HOW did you tow your S2K? What hook up? Roadmaster plates? This is all new to me. thaks. Rickford

 

I read with absolute fascination your 'towing the S2000' story...thank you...that was 9 years ago and I am just about to start with that exact same adventure...my Covid travel plan is to take my newly acquired MH to southern warmer climes this winter, but I want to take my S2000 with me...you ended up using an A frame type tow bar, all 4 wheels down that you got from Blue Ox?...they supplied the instructions to fit it?...did it make the front of your S2000 look messy?...got any snaps that you can personally message me with?...would using a tow dolly have been as effective?...not really sure why it wouldn't be...a tow dolly is my preferred path rather than bolting bits onto the front of the S2000....anyway, thanks again, any advice will be very welcome!...cheers Ian (Harmsy)

 

Hi Rickford...so, over 6 years ago you were going to tow your S2000 behind you MH...did you do it?...got any tips as I am about to start on that adventure right now...tow dolly is my preferred plan but FinallyGotMyS2K used the A frame over 11 years ago...either will work for me though...got any pictures?...hope this message finds you safe!...cheers Ian (Harmsy)

 

 

Your not missing anything! I have towed my 07 S2K from Mi to CA TWICE and it is perfectly fine! Call Roadmaster and see if they still can make you a towing setup for yours, I'm on my mobile now but have lots more to say. I'll tell you more but cant fype it all out NOW sorry. IT CAN BE DONE, DONT LISTEN TO THE NAY SAYERS!!!

 

Brilliant and thank you...I have decided to go Roadmaster from Camping World here in Oregon...when you get time please let me know any others features than I could borrow from your experiences...again, many thanks for going out on the proverbial limb......best Ian.

 

Sorry for the late reply! No problems at all, everything went smooth. I called Roadmaster (I hope finallygotmyS2K see this post also) and they sent me a dedicated s2k adapter package to be used with their tow bars. It was designed for a 2003 and I have a 2007 but I took a chance any way after looking up specs etc and couldn't see why it wouldn't work. It installed perfectly with one small mod...I had to bend the A/C return line (thin aluminum return line) a little to the side to get the "Tube" to fit. All other instillation instruction were exactly as my 07. It was a long process but doable if you have some mechanical ability. After installation all you can see are two black tubes under and inside the front "grill". It's a perfect setup! Have towed my S many times around the country since my 2014 post. The comments from folks at the camping stops are always fun. The always yell out "I love your car"! Going to try and find and attach photos but that's a maybe? Cheers to all and safe travels to you too.

 

Ah-ha...I am buying a Roadmaster ‘dolly’...I wanted to keep my options open for pulling other vehicles...(letting my daughter and fam use our MH)...with the $1700 dolly it comes equipped with lighting and electric brakes too...any additional thoughts?...again, thank you for the responses!...Ian

 

That's a good idea buying the dolly if you want to tow other vehicles. Of course the S2K setup limits you to only the S. Nothing more on this end except that I'm not a fan of Camping World. You can call Roadmaster directly and they will ship you the dolly and I'm quite sure the shipping will be free. I would at least compare the price between CW and Roadmaster direct and check it out. I have found that Roadmaster is very knowledgeable, helpful and friendly over the phone. That is my only other thought. If you bought it already, call Road... anyway and check the price. If it's considerable less go back to CW and they should match it.
OK, safe travels ... Over & Out!