~The battery pictured below is a prototype simply wrapped in heat shrink for testing purposes. the retail versions are sold in a hard case w/ terminals same as most other batteries.~







it is a lithium ferrous phosphate 12volt battery (also available in 16volt). it weighs 3 lbs. and has proven to be everything i need in a battery for my allmotor racecar.

this battery works w/ or w/o your stock charging system (alternator).

when run w/o an alternator it holds a steady 12.5 volts under load going down the track. it takes less than 10 minutes to fully charge between rounds using any inexpensive smart charger and provides multiple startups and runtime between charges. i could have probably went a few rounds w/o charging and i was starting the engine a few times in the lanes each round to keep the engine warm in the cool weather.

you can mount this battery in any position. it is vibration resistant and completely safe unlike some other types of lithium batteries which can and do explode. this battery is also environmentaly friendly/"green".

the battery i tested was NOT a new unit. it has been run for a couple seasons now and has seen ALOT of abuse.

alot of guys will opt for the 16 volt versions, however i myself have found this 12volt battery to work perfect for me. i am running s300 and a bosch pump w/ old school rc injectors @ 50 psi. i also run the stock waterpump.

 

Great info again from Randy.. you're doing great stuff for the community man!
Are you going to be a sales representative for this also like RLZ heads?

 

nope, just trying to bring new product info to the attention of other racers

 

battery is pretty cool, its so small it looks like its a battery to a old nextel phone haha

 

Can they make a 14v version?

 

I checked out the site and there is only a domestic one for $795!?! my buddy got a light race battery from fastbattery.com with a digital charger for $395 and i think its prob the same cells as that heat shrinked one uses.

 

definitely intersted in a 16v version...do you have any more info? reserve capacity, amp hour rating...

 

your going to see a lot of people trying to make money off the lithium cell batteries before people start to figure out they can buy the cells with tabs and just solder them together and save huge amounts of $

basicly you can buy either the round cells with tabs....or the flat cells with tabs....
example

4 of these would give you 12.8 volts...5 of these would give you 16volts

 

It would be interesting to see a datalog of the voltage system while in use at the track.

Stefan

 

Seems the way to go
How much hp can be freed by losing the alternator all together? (Saves even more weight)

 

Ryan has told me they can make anything the customer wants. best thing to do is email him, he is very helpful.

 

i dont think they have updated their website in a long time. email is the best way to get up to date info on these batteries.

 

again, just email them at Ryan@powercelltech.com

 

we removed the alt belt on the dyno and picked up 5whp across the board

 

Thats a pretty nice gain by just removing the belt. hmmmmm..

 

Oh do I respond to this thread or leave it alone? I can't help myself.

Check the specs on this cell:
3.2V 20Ah LiFePO4 Rechargeable Battery.
Maximum discharge rate: 2C.
Maximum charge current: 20A.
Maximum burst of: 65A.
Recommended charging rate: 0.3C. meaning 6A...

This is a perfect solution...if your alternator is only a 20A alternator and your starter never pulls more than 65A. My 2000 Honda Civic has a 70A alt on it and my Denso starter pulls 465A tapering down to 200A during an engine start. My Honda van w/ a 3.5L VTEC will pull 900A peak tapering to 270A...and that alternator puts out 134A after the engine starts. (yes I did check that with a data acquisition system.) What will that do to these cells? Will they last? Will they fail? I seriously doubt Tenergy will warranty cells for which you have consistently exceeded the ratings...

At the bare minimum if you're going to strike out on your own and assume all the risks and solder cells together at least buy the high C rate power cells, not these energy cells. Otherwise, in an engine starting application you are asking for a mess.

Remember all types of lithium batteries are much more likely to fail during charging, not discharging. Your alternator is your charger. How your alternator interacts with this new battery chemistry will be more important with a daily driver. You are recommending active cell balancing, right?

 

your alternator will only put out what the cells pull since its regulated....if you stack 4 in series then another 4 in series and put them in parrallel they are overkill for running a car.
you come in here saying stupid **** all the time with no clue on how im stacking the cells and assuming ive never tried and tested these
"465A tapering down to 200A" did you just pulls these numbers out of your ***? the most ive seen is around 250 surge droping to around 180amps ON A V8 using a SUN VAT-40 to read current.... ive started my high compression engine off a 80amp pyramid powersupply there is no way in hell it pulls that much current. hell most chargers with engine start mode dont even put out that kinda current.

 

Kevin Bennett Thanks for your info.

 

look guys, the battery i tested is not the same as the pic posted above. furthermore i did this testing w/ my own expensive engine setup, time and money just to bring some solid info to other members here.

the same two of you guys who were arguing in the xs thread can argue elsewhere if you feel the need. and now that i see kevin bennet is a sponsor here its obvious why this thread was reported and deleted before being edited and put back up.

dude seriously, you thought i was trying to sell fucvking batteries seriously...

like i said im just putting solid info out there straight from track testing not from some he said she said bs

i dont care who buys which battery, i just wanted to get my results out there for everyone and i dont appreciate my **** being deleted because another battery guy is jealous to see a competitors name or contact info in here...

 

actually, the battery you tested most likely does have the SAME cells....there's only 2 major manuf's of the cells for the entire industry. bigger name companies come in and hand pick the matched cell packs and better rated single cells...the lesser names get the rest. These are no different than the cells used in RC cars...just larger capacity.

 

yup.....i use them in all of my r/c planes and r/c cars. cant beat the power to weight ratio or the power output. i started experimenting with them in my cars last year and have had nothing but great results.

 

I did not report this thread and I have no idea about it being pulled down or edited or whatever.

Also I am not trashing your battery or your results. It is great to put up data that you've gathered and post your experiences. That's the power and beauty of a forum. I really wasn't commenting on your battery at all because I don't know anything about it.

All I am saying is that it's not so easy as "solder cells together and forget the manufacturers out there." I have personally seen a lithium battery fire at an ADRL race and I am just saying that some caution needs to be exercised with lithium batteries. Yes some chemistries are more dangerous that others but every battery has the potential for failure. So my posts are not to trash your or others, only to caution and add to the general discussion.

 

My bad, it's 1,000A peak. Gathered from a typical 2002 Honda Odyssey 3.5L with a stock starter and an XS Power D2400. Red line is battery voltage, blue line is battery amperage. Total screen shot time: 1 second.

The starter is not the thing that will get you. It's the alternator. That dip in the blue line is 134A peak settling down to 59A to replace the 0.41Ah of energy used during a typical crank. These are the numbers coming and going out of the battery not out of the alternator.

 

wow....so just delete my posts to protect your vendors....way to go honda-tech.

 

Those tenergy cells are actually just the worst examples you could have used. One "pouch" like that is usually about $100.. so what.. $400 for 4 for a 12v... and your going to have this wide and tall flat battery. Im not sure solder is smart haha, you need to spot weld them with low volt high amp devices. The better cells can easily take 10A charge and with there being 16 or so cells in there sending 200A into a pack means each cell is getting 12.5amps right?

I wouldnt personally build one, you need solid posts, correct spot welding, non conductive materials, strong case. Id rather work at my job and just buy one.

If you wanted to prove a point you would show say the Dow Chemical pouches that take 1C (40amp) Discharge 300+ amp.. those are sick and i think being used in the Volt. Im sure 4 of those would set you back.