On Friday afternoon I worked up the guts to swap the springs in my car. Here is my old setup:
'95 GSR Autocrossed and Daily Driven
615f/450r springs
ITR rear antisway bar with adjustable end-links set at full stiff
damper coilovers with compression and rebound adustment

New setup:
450f/615r
With this setup, I had to adjust the front dampers about three clicks more stiff. So the ride is not too harsh on the street, I put the front tires at 35psi and the rear at 31psi. I also set the rear dampers at full soft. With this setup, driving on the street is very comfortable.

Caution, push the car, you will get oversteer. Lift on the accelerator in a hard turn = little oversteer.
Apply the brakes in a hard turn = spin. Handleing feels great. Autocross should be great.

 

may indue understeer during an autocross unless you left foot brake and try to rotate the car. I love stiffer rear then front in my gsr, just tap the brakes and lift the rear which then jumps side ways and places you straight through the gate or around the cone.

 

What brand of suspension are you running? Coilovers?


[Modified by 6ghatch, 5:09 PM 9/28/2002]

 

May induce understeer? Why? How? Dont see how the car is going to push on an autocross coarse.

The coil-overs are Apexi N1 Dampers(99 spec). Believe it or not they come with 11k front/5k rear or 615f/279r. Can you say push! They obviously did not design autocross or road racing into this system. I did contact Apexi about why they chose the rates they did. They did not have a lot to say, but that it was made for the street and other rates were available if desired.

Instead of waiting over 6 weeks and alot of extra money to order the Apexi springs, I opted to call Ground Control. I bought the Eibach ERS 2.5 in ID 8" length 450's for the rear and used them for about a week before swapping them to the front.

 

How do you adjust the end links to get full stiff? Are you mounting the end links to the holes on the ITR bar? Or do you have a custom "slider" type of end links? If you're talking about the "slider" type, please ignore my question. I know the answer to that. But if you're talking about the adjustable length of the end links, then I'd like to know how. I never knew that this kinda end links can adjust the stiffness of the bar. The function of the this kinda end links is to eliminate preload (or some people would add preload) on the bar. Adjusting the lengths of the end links have little to no effect on the stiffness of the bar.

 

I will have to disagree with that last statement. Let's start with what I have on my car. I have removed the stock end-links that connect the bar to the lower control arm. In it's place are custom made end links by my race sponsor Nathaniel's. All it does is adjust the height between the bar and the control arm. This has nothing to do with pre-load. This also does not "change the stiffness of the bar", it only optimises the geometry to effectively stiffen the bar. If adjusting the height makes no difference, then why do adjustable end links exsist?

 

I agree, it will optimize the geometry of the bar with the other suspension components. But I don't agree that it has nothing to do with preload. For example, if the left side is 1/4" shorter than the right side, you're inducing preload on the bar already. When you install the adj. end links, you can adjust them so both of the are of the same length. But in reality, once you installed those end links to the car, and drop the car on the ground, there is some preload due to the weight difference on each corner. The best way to set the bar is to install one end link while leave the other side unattached. Drop the car back on the ground with you in the driver seat (basically the way you run in auto-x), then adjust the length of the end that the link is unattached. Adjust it till the bolt can go thru both the end link and the hole on the bar without force. This way you're eliminating preload.

 

Agreed, and well said.

 

600f/500r, gs-r front bar, 22mm rear bar. i already have all those handling characteristics. add to it "stay flat through slalom our spin" and you would be describing how my car drives to a "t". grabbing a set of 700's for the rear of my car this week, trying to get it to come off of turns better. let you know how it works. i wouldn't recommend those tire pressures and shock settings for autocross though. i assume you know that, i just don't want someone else to think that is a good starting place. what kind of alignment are you running, and what do you set the compression to on your shocks?

nate

 

i just autox today with my road race setup: 450f/900r, stock FSW, ST RSW and it was all oversteer. spunout 4 out of 6 runs. works great on the track, but too much for autox. it did help to drop the pressure low to 36f/34r on Victos, but still easily spun out when i got on the gas.

 

are you running R tires or street tires?

Mike

 

solo-x is in STS, on Falken A's.

700lb springs = car skittering across pavement = plenty of rotation, even when unwanted

Have fun on bumpy surfaces! Seriously though, if your Konis are valved correctly you should be ok.

 

what, like topeka??? i realize i'm running some pretty high numbers for street tires but bad things seem to happen when i go to a lighter spring. i have no idea how chris and jason keep their cars from bottoming out with such light springs. maybe a 4th gen has different geometry and more travel then a 5th gen??

nate <----------in the market for shortened and revalved koni's so that his car stops riding the bump stops on grippy and bumpy courses.

 

Jason was having issues (has been all year IMO), but Chris' car looked a lot better on the stiffer Konis from what I heard. 400/500 rates on a 2100lb car is about right for street tires.

BTW--geometry on 4th and 5th gen civics are all identical. Same goes for the 94-01 Integra. 96-00 Civic is a tad different, but the difference is the additional camber in the rear.

 

is chris using shorened koni's? or are they just revalved?

nate

 

Sorry Solo-x, I have not been able to get to here in a couple of days. No need to go so high in the rear, just put the 500's in the front and the 600 in the back. I dont run those rates or those damper settings for autocross, only on the street for a comfortable ride. I will have to experiment at the next autox to see what settings the new spring setup likes. I will run higher pressure in the front and the rear, maybe 40f/36r. Then see what happens.

The alignment is about -2 degrees in front and -1.5 degrees rear. Dont run any toe.

 

that's already been covered in another thread. due to suspension travel issues and necessary camber i can't go any lighter on the front spring. i wish i had the damper setup you have, but i'm poor. at any rate, i'll know what the car feels like with 700's on the back after this weekend. i would like to switch to a no rear bar setup and run even higher rear rates, but i'll see what the car feels like with 600fr/700rr first.

<-----------------wondering why his kindey's just cringed.

 

A glutton for torture I guess... How come no rear bar? Just asking b/c I havent heard that one yet. Why not continue with the 600f/700r setup, which by the way I think you will like, and go with a 25mm rear bar? I have the 22mm ITR rear bar with the 450f and 615r and it feels great. Its not so stiff in the back that I cant drive around Houston. Also, make the rear anti-sway bar adjustable so you can tune the setup. Just a thought. I would hate to see what higher than 600 or 700 would do to the car or your kidneys on the street.

 

imo, the rear bar affects the roll couple much more then the springs do. if i ran a smaller rear bar, or no rear bar at all i would be able to make the car rotate with spring rate, but since the rear roll couple is so soft the car wouldn't be twitchy at corner entry. that's the theory anyhow, i'll have to test it to see if it actually works that way.

nate