Hi everyone....
First Off, YES I HAVE READ THE FAQ ABOUT 10 TIMES...
So, that said.. I have a lead on two options for my rear conversion...

First, about $130 for the entire rear knuckles without the handbrake cables,
or $220 for the setup including handbrake cables...
So, I know the cables are not worth the $90 difference but at least this way they should be guaranteed to work with the set up..

My accord is the CD4 model (almost identical to the CD5 etc in the US) non-ABS (JDM, RHD, not located in the US) So I will be getting a brake setup from the equivalent car that had rear disc...

My questions are this.. Firstly, I have seen the ABS brake setups use 2 brake lines for each caliper at the rear.. I'm assuming that if I am not running ABS I will be clear just hooking up the single line (as I would on the drums?)

My next question, will my stock proportioning valve be sufficient to send the right amount of fluid to the rear to make a noticeable difference? If not, what should I be looking into replacing it with? I have seen people use 93 integra valves but I am not 100% sure that will work for my setup..
What about the possibility of using an adjustable prop valve? Any reccomendation of feasibility, price, brand etc?

Final question.. will the stock brake booster be fine?

Thanks for all the help!

 

AFAIK ABS and non-ABS cars both use two rear metal lines. FWD cars are diagonally split systems. The difference between the two cars will be, one will have an ABS unit, and the combination or proportion valve will be different due to the drums/discs.
Use the correct proporttioning valve for the applicable model. Otherwise your brake bias will be incorrect.
AFAIK on the Accords ABS and disc rear brakes go hand in hand. Either you had a ABS/rear disc, or non ABS/rear drum.
I am unsure, due to the diagonally split system. I take it this is why the Integra valve is used? It fits into place where the drum prop valve is normally, without having to retrofit the ABS system and lines.
Will it work, most likely. Will the pedal require more effort, possibly. If the booster sizes were different between the ABS/rear discs and non ABS/rear drum. I would be more concerned if the master cylinder on the rear disc braked cars is of a larger diameter than the drum braked cars.

EDIT: To clarify on the booster and MC...
Usually, but not always, when a car is optioned with disc brakes the master cylinder is also changed, usually, with an increase of bore size. Most likely the pedal ratio(pedal leverage) will not change between the two options. But the increase in bore size would require more effort. To help maintain equal foot pressure between the two models, the booster may be of a larger diameter(adding more assist),due to the larger MC bore.

 

The thing is, I have stainless steel lines for my drum setup, so if the new rear disc setup uses 4 lines (2 each side) how would I be able to get the extra 2 lines stainless steel without having to buy an entire new kit?

What is the purpose of the two separate lines on the rear? Why would the front use a single line and the rear have 2?

Well the correct prop valve is not an option because all accords that came rear disc in my year also came ABS which will not work with my setup, hence why I would have to improvise if changing prop valve. All the rear drum setups came non-ABS

Well, I think the integra is the newest rear disc model without ABS hence why that prop valve is used... If that can be avoided by using an adjustable prop valve the system can be adjusted to suit without having to take parts from other cars..

So I definitely need to investigate if the booster sizes for the rear disc accords are same or not.. I will look into it and see if it matches or if it is different.. If I can use my stock booster and master cyl, it will definitely make the swap cheaper than having to change both of those..
I will definitely have to get more info about that..

Thanks again and keep the great info coming..

 

i did it to my accord. All i did was drop my rear subframe and swap them so i didn't have to mess with much besides the 4 bolts i believe and i think i may have had to put the rear sway bar back on. Its an easy swap. I had stainless flex lines on my DRUMS, and they do not fit the discs. they are wayyy too short. you'll need the right ones for it to work, as there is only one flex line instead of the two. As for the other stuff.. i looked in to it. The abs module in the ex has the prop valve. you can use the 40.40 one.. i was going to do it, but i have had zero problems with my braking. I did have a problem with the ebrake, i did have to adjust it just right, but ever since then, i have no problems. I can let the car sit and get surface rust on the rotors and it all comes off on all 4 wheels.. i don't have any drag or pull.. and that is all with the stock drum hardware. i imagine the 40.40 would make it better but its good for me for now. I will probably do the 40.40 when i go turbo just to be able to stop easier. I am also running brembo crossdrilled and hawk pads

 

Thanks for the help sony.. I am actually running Brembo Sport Slotted on the front and Hawk HPS myself..

Anyway back to the brake set up.. You mentioned that the lines don't fit the disc? I will probably call goodridge and double check this just to be sure what is the difference between the lines.. You said that you only needed 1 flex line for each rear? I thought that all the rear disc (with abs) came with 2 per disc in the rear but the drum was single line..

Concerning the prop valve from the ex, would it be a simple swap from my stock, even if it came from an ABS equipped car?

Concerning the E-Brake, my mechanic will take care of those adjustments so im not too worried about that..

My main concern now are the lines and the hydraulic hardware.

 

from what i can remember.. and i did this swap like 2 years ago.. was that the drum lines were 2 rubber lines and the disc has a hard line and a flex line. I remember i accidentally ordered drum stainless flex lines and they wouldn't work or fit and i had to return them and get the right ones.

The ex has the abs module, and the prop valve is inside of it from what i understand. im not sure you can add that in.

 

Yea, I'm definitely going to have to call goodridge to see whats the story with the stainless lines and if they will fit...
I'm not really in the mood to throw out another $160 for lines.. I can confirm for you though that the drum has only 1 line per drum in the back

http://www.goodridge.net/documents/d...stomer_ver.pdf

That is the goodridge catalogue and for some reason only the 92-97 accords with rear disc and ABS have 6 lines.. everything else appears to be 4..
Is the extra 2 for ABS or for the Disc? I can't see why the disc itself needs more than 1 line...

 

its gotta be for the drums. i just know the stainless flex line kits are not interchangeable.

 

I believe the extra lines are for the discs. You would need a flex line on the calipers, as honda uses floating calipers so they move as the brakes wear. Drums have a hard-line hooked directly up the wheel cylinders, no flex no need for a flexline.

Here is the story behind the prop valves. The integra valve is also known as a 40/40 prop valve. It was used on non ABS integras, and non ABS 4th gen prelude SI, which has an identical brake setup to the 5th gen accords with rear discs, only non ABS. So it is designed to be used with those calipers.

As for your brake booster/master cylinder. Changing those does not affect your braking force. It affects your pedal travel and effort.

Increasing the size of your brake booster without changing the system, your brake pedal requires less force from your foot to depress.

If you increase the size of the brake master cylinder without changing the system, you will not have to depress the pedal as far in order to achieve the same braking force as the larger cylinder moves more fluid. On the other hand, if you increase the fluid requirements of your braking system without changing the master cylinder you will have to push the pedal farther down to achieve the same braking force.

ABS cars do not have a proportioning valve. The ABS modulator essentially performs the same function, only it proportions the wheels individually rather than in pairs.

 

thanks for the clarification chikin,

I understand everything you said about the prop valves etc, but I'm not 100% clear on the issue of the lines..

My drums definitely have one "soft" line each.. Is this different to a "flex" line? As far as I knew there was only hard (metal) and soft (rubber)...
So, that still doesnt explain what the extra rear line is for, or I don't understand if you explained...

My next question would be, how hard is it to source and install an integra's 40/40 prop valve, vs the option of finding some sort of adjustable valve..

 

Honestly, just grab a 40/40 prop valve, there's tons laying around and it's already tuned for your brakes. Adjustable ones are usually pretty big, and you'd have to tune them on a skid pad to dial in bias.

Soft lines and flex lines are the same thing, flex I was just using for flexible. Whatever they're made of. Soft lines is the proper terminology I guess. The extra soft lines on the disc brakes allow the brake lines to move with the calipers as the pads wear.

They used a hardline it doesn't have to flex as wheel cylinders are stationary.

Honestly, for the brake hoses, just measure and find a set off a different car that uses the same threads. Do a little digging and you will find something that is equivalent.

 

Well yea, I assumed thats what you meant by flex lines... Flex = soft or rubber

My main concern then is why is it that only out model accord seems to come with 6 brake lines and pretty much every other honda comes with only 4?
Doesn't really make sense to me..

I get everything you are saying about prop valves though, shouldnt be TOO hard to source one.. However, are they all universal regardless of if the car is RHD or LHD.. My master cyl is inverted from yours, ie. My lines are on the right of the MC (facing front of car) instead of the left as you would see on a LHD accord.. So, would the prop valve show similar differences?

From looking at it, it appears the 90-93 integra master cylinder looks very very similar to mine.. ie. the lines are on the same side, 15/16" bore is present as well. If I can get one of these MC's for about $40, does it even make sense buying a prop valve or would I be better off just using this entire new or reman MC including its prop valve? Assuming it fits of course...
If it doesn't, there is always just extracting the prop valve from it and moving it into my existing 15/16" MC on the accord..

 

The proportioning valve is separate for the master cylinder. Just buy the valve and swap it, as for RHD vs LHD I don't know.

I'll explain again about the lines. These particular disc brakes use single piston floating calipers. As the pads wear the calipers move to compensate. So beginning of life, vs end of life the caliper will be in a different spot. The brake line needs to move with it.

On drum brakes, there is a soft line to allow the lines to move with the trailing arms. This connects to a hardline that runs along the trailing arm plumbed directly to the brake hydraulics.

On disc brakes, the hardline on the trailing arm connects to the soft line that allows the line to move with the calipers as well. The brake lines to floating calipers need to be flexible as the calipers move. Honda used two flexible lines bridged by a hardline on the trailing arm, rather than one very long flexible one.

 

i want to say ex master cylinders are a little bit bigger but i might be thinking of civics. also, im telling you, the stainless flex lines are different between drum and disc. i'm just trying to save you some aggravation. and do the 40.40 prop valve... it will help out.

 

i appreciate all the help and advice... I'm still learning so bear with me..
Ok, I finally get what you mean about the line setup for the rear disc.. Only one connects to the caliper itself but the other is just part of the plumbing on the way ..

So, this brings me to another question.. I assume when doing the swap you need to change the trailing arm as well,. ie. the current trailing arm from my drum set up will not work with the rear discs?
Assuming I need the trailing arm from the disc setup, the arm presumably will be used and therefore I have no guarantee on what condition the TA bushing will be in. What would you recommend for this? Have they begun selling just the bushing for these accords or are you still required to buy the entire arm for a new bushing?

Thanks

 

Yes you will need to use the trailing arm off the disc brake car for the additional hardware and different brake plumbing.

For the bushings, energy suspension or call honda, whoever. They sell bushings they aren't hard to find. You might need a press to install them, depends on if it's sleeved or not (I haven't taken a look)

 

I have a 92 Accord LX non ABS. I swapped the entire rear sub frame from an EX with ABS. It appears that there are 4 brake lines, but they are ABS sensors. It came with the rear sway bar too.

I used an Integra 40/40 proportioning valve. Its installed upside down, but it works. You do need to push on the pedal a bit harder to stop but it works great.

To do the swap unbolt everything and unhook everything, except the 4 big bolts. Then get a jack and lower the whole thing. Then Swap. Its really easy.

 

Well, its clear i need the trailing arm from the rear disc set up, and lines for this set up as well.. Fair enough..
However chickin, I don't think they sell individual TA bushings for the accord, you normally are required to swap the entire training arm which is madness as far as i'm concerned..

Concerning the 40/40 valve, where did you source it and how complicated is the installation??
How much would one of these valves be new vs used?

 

Time to follow up...

All parts for the conversion have been sourced besides the actual rear knuckles etc...
I have a used parts place back n the Caribbean that has it available for about $150 for the pair including handbrake cables..
Hopefully my mechanic approves of the condition of the calipers etc so that i can pick it up and get to work...

This swap is my summer project.. Also I figure since we will already have the back end stripped down I will change the rear control and sway bar bushings ...