All the really fast civics seem to have b-0series motors in them (the majority of the really fast ones I hear about have b18c's). The main question I have is, why do these cars have b18c's over, say, an h22? I would think that the larger displacement of an h22 would yield better results with the same mods, but (with the exception of Papadakis (sp?)) it seems that the drag civics are useing b-series motors. Can anyone explain why?

I'm at a crossroads... I can keep my turbo h22a civic hatch and finish tuning her (I can't get her tuned), or I can return to a turbo b18c civic hatch... in the end they weigh about the same. Which would you choose and wny? I don';t care about the extra weight of the h22 in the corners... I'm building a daily driver that lives for the drag strip.

 

h sereis are just pain in the *** to get tuend right. But when they are tuned this ******* setup hauls *** just ask hp racing they got there car down to a tee now running 8.90 in there sleep.

 

because less people have a H22a.

 

B sereis in my opionion are a much better motor.


Lee

 

Well, why do you think that?

 

Having enough power isn't the problem.

Getting the power to the ground is the problem.

 

One example: at IDRC this weekend (in Denver), there were a few b-series vehicles in the 9's (at elevation...... 6000ft), but the turbo built standalone h22a civic was only in the 11's. Is this merely a tuning issue?

 

Here is the answer...

#1 the H series motor is VERy expensive to build because of the FRM sleeves, and the labor costs...being easily double B series.

#2 The H series tranny won't shift after about 8500 RPM, thats a problem.

#3 The H series motor takes alot more tuning work to make run right.

#4 No matter what, the H series motor will make more power and beat a B series motor build similarly.

#5 H series motor holds both world record for Forced induction AND All motor.

#6 I have a H23/VTEC myself. I like the torque. And its going to make 200 WHP with stock cams, and all Honda parts. You can't say that about B series.

Thank you, thank you very much

Jeff

 

Um.... some of those things you can.

 

Can you tell me more about this tranny not shifting at 8500rpm thing? I haven't heard of this yet.

ImportReview, would you say that I should stick with the turbo h22a civic over a turbo b18c civic? My issue: I can't tune her. I have hondata and a techedge wideband, but the basemap I have (from the hondata tunes library) doesn't run well at all. The wideband gives me readings all over the chart (ie, rich then immediately lean, mack and forth, back and forth) so that I can't tell if I'm running rich or lean. I don't think there are experienced hondata tuners in my state that I could pay to tune it for me.... I'm lost.

SirKid: you lost me... what are you saying?


[Modified by servion, 10:50 AM 9/25/2002]


[Modified by servion, 10:51 AM 9/25/2002]

 

H22's make loads of torque so naturally you will have more traction issues..
H22's pushing 700 hp will have over 500-550 ft lbs of trq on the low side.. lol thats A $hit pile of power to get to the ground. Compare it to a FI b16 and you'd see 550 hp and 300-350 ft lbs.. I remember when Steven P. had that black ef with no bumper covers etc.. with the turbo h22...lol that car was running mid 11's when the silver bullet was pulling 10.8s with an LS turbo..

 

One thing is...

Never turbo a prelude unless you have alot of money.

They ae really really hard to get to run right, and keep running.

Your wideband problem is because air is getting into the unit.

Put it on the header, and make sure the FULL exhuast is on, and its tight.

Jeff

 

hmm..Ill let you guys know how my fully built h22 runs....

 

any more thoughts?

 

sounds like you need to turn off closed-loop

 

Jeff,
If all you are saying is true, THANK YOU! I was thinking of Turbo'ing a Prelude since it had more power than my Civic, but know I think I will stick to a motor swap and a turbo for th civic

 

closed loop is off... its really strange

So, is the majority of people here saying that I should go back to the b18c turbo setup?

 

its all about the cool factor when you open your hood. everyone has a b series.

 

true that ****

 

Jeff, so should i be putting my tech edge wideband in the cat (test pipe) or in one of the runners on the manifold? (turbo..)

 

I can. I built a totally mild LS/VTEC 2 years ago in my Civic Coupe using a bone stock ITR head, intake manifold, cams, and pistons... and made 192.5 hp. I was using a DC Sports **** header, and restrictive exhaust.

Had I opted for CTR pistons over ITR, and had used a JDM 4-1 oem header... I surely would have laid down at LEAST 8 more whp

Just had to backup the B-Series... built right, with OEM parts, you can have a real screamer. Here's me at the track on a 12.80@107mph with that setup. 1.8 60' with open diff.

http://endlesstrance.com/LouisLSVTEC.mpg

- Louis

 

i can build a 200 hp all motor b-series motor using all honda parts, thats not hard. and as far as the tranny not shifting, B.S. i have a customer who shifts his prelude at around 9000 all day long and has had no problem whats so ever. and as far the h being more expensive to build ahhhhh, maybe a little not much. and as far as tuning, well tuning is tuning either you can do it or you cant.
Miller

 

Are u talkin about a h22 or h23 non-vtec?

 

sorry man, the h series tranny blows and shifting above 8000-8500 with over 400 to the wheels is extremely inconsistent. even the pro's running h22's with oem trannies are very inconsistent. does not wanna shift with any real power.


..........then theres the axles.


[Modified by jinxproof99, 3:57 PM 9/27/2002]

 

so what would you guy suggest? stay with the tyurbo h22 civic or go back to the turbo b18c civic?