I have looked high and low for the gearing in the AWD transfer case and the rear end to no avail. I even have the helms manual, and could not find it in there. Trying to find out what type of gearing I should run for my RWD element conversion using the AWD trans, transfer case, and an r200 or r230 rear end.

I had seen something about the rear gearing being 2.xx:1 or something along those lines, but figure this is because they are biasing torque that way as well as with the clutch packs in the rear diff(correct me if I am wrong).

This is pretty much the final hurdle to get this to work(besides the custom fab and such), as I did not want to jump in without all of my cards in play.

Thanks for any and all help.

Travis

 

Good luck, i work at honda and can't find this info

 

French toast sticks!!!!!!

I guess I will have to play with gearing then... ugh...

Anyone?

How about the b series crv transfer? Trying to get a ballpark at least!

 

Yup, b-series i can do!!
1st- 3.500
2nd- 1.956
3rd- 1.344
4th- 1.071
5th- 0.812
final drive- 4.562
Transfer- 0.434
rear diff- 2.533 i think??

 

I had read somewhere that the rear gearing in the B/K differentials were the same(read close). Would this surmise that the transfer would be of like gearing?

Looking to KIND OF get my gearing figured out, and I can play with tire size from there(the E has HUGE wheel wells)

 

well i dont have exact information....but i can say, without a doubt....the differential in a 97-01 CRV is the SAME as a differential in a Element.

same part #'s from honda.
41010-P6R-345 003 001 CARRIER SUB-ASSY., RR. DIFFERENTIAL
41010-P6R-345 003 001 CARRIER SUB-ASSY., RR. DIFFERENTIAL

http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/...R+DIFFERENTIAL

http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/...ENTIAL+-+MOUNT



so if the diff's are the same....gear ratio's in the rear end are also the same.

 

also, looks like the 02, 03, crv also have same part # for differential/TCD. but in 04 the TCD part # is same, but "carrier sub assy" is different part # (not sure whats different?) then in 05, part #'s for both "carrier sub assy" and TCD are different.

so i think its safe to say that 97-03 crv's and ALL Elements (yes i cross referenced every year of element lol) share the same gear ratio's because they all share the same rear-ends.

hope that helps!

 

Thanks a ton! I wasn't sure if the b and k could use the same case, as they turn opposite directions.

 

Now what about the transfer cases?

I know the gearboxes have very different gearing.

I also know how honda like to reuse the same part in lots of models for ease of manufacturing.

 

newer crv's are the same as elements according to part #. 1st gen crv's have different part number. although i would have to assume that the gearing is the same in all 3 models because they share the same rear ends. probably just transmission differences between b/k is why they are different part numbers.

 

Cool. This is about as concrete as it gets... Better than no information!

 

Interesting...
I've been wondering the same thing, would be nice to get the rear end working full-time all the time on my V.
Let's us know how it ends up working out for you!

 

You would need to use a viscous coupling after the transfer case, and switch to a different differential if you do this, as everything that decides when torque is sent to the back wheels is inside the diff. If you set it up to think the front wheels are slipping all of the time you will overheat the diff.

The factory diff is not capable of true AWD.

 

You are correct, but with that being said, there must be a way to replace the stock diff internals with something suitable, maybe a diff from an s2k? Nissan 350? Anything goes really.
But it is the gear ratio that must be matched to the (T). And it is what I'm mostly inerested in finding out, the fabrication part is the easy part. there's is plenty of room down there under the V to squeeze in a diff case from a different vehicle.

 

Cobra rear end is the only thing you will be able to find to match that gearing. Ive looked... That is most likely the route I am going to go.

 

you dont need to swap out the rear end...just need to put an LSD in the rear diff and make a solid drive shaft. install some axle stubs in the hubs, and plug the holes in teh trans for the front axles. now its just like any other rwd car. in the rally sol thread there is some pics of Jakers wagon...he is running RWD only. a d-series LSD fits in a wagovan rear end...im sure it could also be fitted to a CRV/Element rear end with less modification than an entirely new rear end...

 

I know you don't have to, but the stock differential has not had lots of power ONLY on the rear axles.

Additionally, the CRV/ Element rear end it totally different than the wagovan in that the viscous coupling is there in the form of a clutch pack in the rear end, as opposed to on the driveshaft like the wagovan has.

If you run this system RWD(CRV/Element) you will overheat the rear end in no time. It does not have the cooling compacity to run all of the time.

Try jacking up the whole car, and hit the gas with all 4 tires in the air.(theoretically, I do not recomend this to anyone) once the rear wheels have been turning consistently for any significant time(a minute or so) The rear differential will practically burn your hands.

I am going this route for that reason, and the reason that I am FWD at them moment in my E, and will have to buy parts anyways, why not make sure they will hold 400 ft lbs of torque in a 4000lb car. Navigator axles and c clip eliminators, and practically solid mount the diff, I do not think I am going to have many issues with it.(more concerned about the Xfer case and transmission)

If you can figure out the cooling issue, the CRV rear may be worth a shot, I just am not sure what kind of power it will hold, and I prefer to not be the test dummy(I did that when I kpro'd an 07 up E). Too much learning curve and expensive parts/ refabrication.

 

Well the engine is running 22lbs of supercharger boost. I have no dyno numbers yet (this weekend), but the car weighs 2,245lbs, and runs 255/35-18 Hoosier A6 rear tires on 10.5" wide wheels. I doubt I'm near the 400 ft/lbs you're talking about, but the rear diff has survived plenty of hard launches, and I've autocrossed the car at 7-8 events so far. The rear diff DID survive a wheel hopping 1st/2nd gear launch to 9,000 rpm that took out the transfer case housing.

Oh, and custom FD gears will cost you about $5k. I considered that route when building the car, and decided that I'll try the OEM diff housing with the OBX LSD just to see what it could handle. So far, so good. If you're considering an S2K rear end, I have a complete pumpkin with diff and axle stubs at home that I'll never use.

 

Awesome, awesome, awesome!
But, still, i would imagine the rear gear ratio would still need to be matched to the front if I was to keep both front and rear operational full time?
I understand that slapping any other diff In the rear would be fine if we were just going rwd, exact ratios would not matter as much. ?

 

This whole thread is about the OP wanting to run his Element as RWD only. To further this discussion, the boys at Braille Auto built a drift Integra a bunch of years ago. They used a JRSC Boosted 1st gen B series CRV engine with the CRV transmission, and drove the CRV rear pumpkin in an OEM manner. They welded up some internals in the CRV rear end to make it full time 100% drive, eliminating the pumps and such. It lived a long and purposeful life as a drift car. They claimed the only failures that troubled them were the rear axles.

 

for one, you HAVE to lock the TCD unit or remove it completely in order for it to be RWD. you CANNOT keep the TCD functioning in RWD form or it will fail. so to answer your question, the way you overcome the heat issues and keep the clutches from burning up....is to crack open the TCD, remove the clutch's and weld in a coupler than permanently connects the prop shaft to the pinion in the rear end. (a better explanation is to build a coupler that connects the 2 pump shafts together inside the TCD, which subsequently connects the prop shaft to the pinion) same thing applies in the wagovan, and any other rt4wd honda. you have to convert it to a conventional RWD setup.

and yes the braille integra is a perfect example of how to do it.

 

How much power are you planning on making? What type of driving or racing do you plan to doing with it?

 

Thinking 500-600. I am still unsure if I want to go to full RWD. I would LOVE to have REAL AWD, and think I would have better all around performance this way(more work with setting up a transfer case, but could prove to be worth it).

I have also been looking at the cobra rear end. IRS, Limited slip, and I can even upgrade axles without much other work, and I can get the gearing I need, since they make every gear under the sun for those rear ends.

The car is my DD, but is tracked some(drag strip, and maybe some hpde events). This is part of the thing making me think more towards AWD, with being able to hook fairly decently on the street, and not just break the rear tires loose all over the place(I admit this can be fun sometimes).

Obviously, no one has done a similair project on an E(sans the Element D, but it's a true race car), and I am looking for insight on the direction to take my project.

Here is my E as it sits, so y'all don't think I am just bench racing.
I am sitting at 389hp and 329 ft/lbs at the moment, and don't plan to turn it up until I can get it down the track better.

http://www.elementownersclub.com/for...ad.php?t=57738

I want to try and do the conversion this summer/fall, and want all of my ducks in a row first.

 

Your best bet is to run a wagovan viscous coupler and rear end. The CR-V rear end has a tiny ring and pinion and axle outputs. There is no room in the case to fit anything larger. As far as the rest of Honda 4wd driveline parts are concerned the transfer case housing is the weak link. We have a 4WD civic with a little over 600HP. With the viscous coupler in place we could pull 1.71 sixty foot times on regular tires. This setup was very reliable with no failures. With the viscous welded along with a welded rear differential sixty foot times fell into the 1.5's but transfer case housings would break on a regular basis.

 

Aaron at Weirtech will be getting started on a billet transfer case housing and pinion holder for my RWD Wagon build here in the next week or so. How are the bevel gears in the transfer case holding up?