Im doing a build on my DD hopefully with a set of Endyn Rollerwaves, and expecting to be putting down 200whp. It will be a ls/vtec 81.5 bore around 12.1 compression, with pro2's and all supporting mods. I know the Rollerwaves can accept press fit or full floating rods, I already have stock ls rods sitting around with arp rod bolts, and I feel for this build they should suffice, but wondering if I should just go with eagle or scat H beam rods. I think forged rods would be a nice piece of mind, but a little overkill for this build. I dont expect to be taking it any higher than 8800rpms at the max, and I see many ls/vtec that have been using that setup for several thousands of miles of abuse and 9k pulls and still holding up fine. On the other hand is there any work involved with stock rods to accept the pistons? I thought I read somewhere that you have to bush the small end of the rods to use those pistons, in which case the cost difference might be miniscule enough to just go with forged rods. The problem I have with forged rods are they are significantly heavier than stock rods. I would think that would put more strain on the rod bearings possibly making it more likely to spin a bearing, which seems to be the leading cause of ls/vtec failure, as opposed to popular belief of the rods actually breaking. Any help or insight on the subject is appreciated.

 

Not all forged rods are significantly heavier then stock, look into crower maxi-lite or carrillo pro a or super pro a, you can't compare these to a cheap heavier h beam

 

Search for your rods weight, you could be very surprised of how much they weight vs ''super heady H beam crap rods''.

Blueprints racing also make a nice I beam rods, not lightweight as maxi-lite, carillo etc ... but better than eagle/scat at a good price.

 

No. there would be no additional "strain" on any rotating assembly components. For NA you could go with either. I myself just recon'd, shot peened and hung my B20 Rods for my 12.4:1 B18C hybrid; not a single problem. If you have forged, or its easier to obtain as opposed to going through a machine shop to do what I did, its a practical reason to do so. But to think that any change in weight is going to cause anything catastrophic just means you're thinking a little to hard on this.. its not that deep.

 

forged pistons will go on stock rods like the cast pistons.. just heat the rod up and slide the wrist pin in...now cast pistons on forged rods is where it gets complicated

 

Way to state the obvious. The OP stated that he knew this in the first post.

 

if you would read the whole thing he said he thought he read somewhere where you had to bush the small end to accept the rollerwaves!!! i was just clearing that up for him smartass

 

STD rods with ARP rod bolts will do a great job in a DD that spins to 8800rpm every now and then,I would rather use H beam and the MIN so called loss in power you would not even feel.

 

for you hp goals and engine size i would recommend against the pro2's. the stage2's or even 3 (NON PRO) would be alot better for a DD and your set up. if it was 2.0l+ then the pro2's wouldnt be so bad. as for the rods why cheap out? just save some coin and get maxlites there not that much more. .

 

Not to sound like a dick, but why would one spend $500+ on a quality piston only to mate it up to the weakest b-series rods/rod bolts there are???

 

I feel like in a high compression build like this, a cast piston is more of a weak point than the rods. I like the Endyn pistons for there design, as well as being made by Wiseco, with a high silicone content more daily driver friendly to the cylinder walls. The ls rods, although some will argue, if equipped with arp rod bolts can take the abuse of occasional 8800rpm pulls. Ive read hundreds of threads about ls/vtec as well as know several people whos idea of daily driving consists of 9k pulls routinely in their ls/v for years with no problems. Alot of people talk about the rods being weak, but I have yet to read about or meet someone who has actually snapped a rod. Its not so much about the cost factor as it is just overkill IMO. Its nice to have piece of mind, and I may go with forged rods for that reason, but as far as my power goals go and rpm range, I wouldnt be too worried sticking with the stock rods and arp rod bolts.

 

BTW, I have been looking into cryo treating for the rods if I do use the stock ls rods, its pretty affordable and proven to increase longevity.

 

with your power goals, i rather go with a pr3 or itr piston. you can use the rest of the cash on a quality header or even some type of ems

 

cryo treating works best when it is done to the parts when they are being made. not to be a dick but you are..... not smart.

pics or ban!!!!

 

That was a little uncalled for . . . I dont see why it would only be effective during manufacturing, Cryo treating just brings the molecules of the rod back together, seeing how they spread apart to begin with from use and fatigue, your statement doesnt make much sense.

 

no, its not.

 

i never said it didnt work just that it works best.

ok to the op why do you want s2p2's?

 

https://honda-tech.com/forums/all-motor-naturally-aspirated-44/precisionautocanada-com-pro1-vs-pro2-dynotest-2684800/

https://honda-tech.com/forums/all-motor-naturally-aspirated-44/pro1-pro2-cams-1-8-street-application-2881200/

Pro2's are a great set of cams that put down impressive numbers even in mild 1.8l builds. I dont want my only useable powerband to be in vtec. Pro2's offer great low end and mid range as well as top end, my goal is to broaden my powerband as much as possible.

 

well to each there own. ive seen so many different graphs of pro's and tune's its crazy.... but i have driven streetcars with very similar setups and the tuner's were alot more responsive. go with a stock rod b20/vtec and make the most out of the pro2's. or you could call endyn and ask them what they would prefer.

 

I should have just said rod bolts because yes, rods aren't the problem, it's their tiny d16 rod bolts that make them suck ***.
I wouldn't use them in my motor, but that just my mindset, not yours.

 

ARP rod bolts have proven themselves time and time again IMO, the biggest worry I have with the rods themselves is the big end of the rod distorting under high rpm's. They were already line honed/bored when the rod bolts were installed, and I guess thats about all I can do about that, but my build plans arent set in stone, I may end up going with the forged rods just for the piece of mind.

 

I wanted to go with oversized p30's orginally for the cost benifit and oem quality, but didnt for 2 reasons.

1. It wouldnt give me enough compression in my setup to get the most out of the pro2's (around 11.5:1), cause im using a gsr block with a taller deck height and a b16 head.

2. I was concerned with oiling problems with the cast pistons, since the oil squirters wont clear the ls crank and I wont be running an external oil line cause its a vtec block.

 

you can easily get 11.5:1 compression with those pistons, milling is required. all depends on how much the pistons are in the hole and the chamber volume. dont let any of those restrict you, always check your clearances.

i would plug the oil squirters. cast pistons with no oil squirters have been done plenty of times with no flaws.

my .02

 

I worded that badly, what I meant to say was it would ONLY give me 11.5:1, im looking for compression between 12.1 and 12.5:1 to take full advantage of the pro2's, since its only a 1.8l. I found a place awhile back that had oversize p30's with rings that has since sold out, but they wanted $375 with rings, and it wouldnt give me the compression I wanted anyway. For an extra $200 bucks roughly, I could get Endyns pistons which give me the compression I want, and at that high of compression can feel a little bit safer with. Endyn pistons run closer p2w clearances than most other forged pistons, and there design words off detonation, so I figured I would give them a try.

 

You can get the right size pistons. If not mill the head to get your target compression. I would also recomend a gas ported set of pistons.