Hey guys looking to make around 180 whp on my b16. As you can see from my signature i have been down this road before but fell short. Since i have been out of the game there have been numerous advances in headers, cams, ect design. I was wondering if this would be possible? If so what would be the recipe? I can take redline higher if needed.....Thaks in advance

Ps the numbers below were with a crappy dc 4-2-1 headers

 

Omniman made 200hp on a b16, im sure 180 can be had with enough money

 

I was only 13whp shy.....the last time

 

Toda header or spoolin replica of the toda header, 3" exhaust, skunk2 tuner 2 cams, re-tune.

 

That was my old setup with my old car. Im on a stock b16 now. Wondering how is this narrow header i hear so much about looks like it could possibly flow damn well?

 

have you looked into water/meth injection? I've had pretty good results on b16's with it...got close to 180 whp on a 99si(motor was setup obd1 in a 93 hatch) b16 with basic mods, (I,H,E) a snow's water meth kit, aem cam gears, and about 80 passes on the dyno

I think the best numbers I was seeing were around 175 with close to 130 tq...had the timing jacked through the roof though...to the point where if the water/meth kit failed it would have damaged the engine. had to install an EGT gauge just to keep an eye on things, had a few close calls with plugged nozzles (using windshield washer fluid instead of a better water/meth mixture) causing EGT's to get past anything I consider reasonable...and EGT's were very high if he decided to mess around on the street on the way to the track (had no way to pull timing based on gear) in 5th gear EGT's would climb really really fast...kid drove the car on the street and at the track for 2 seasons before the car got totalled, motor is still alive and running in another car, he's just not running the water meth kit any more (only because he's racing bikes instead of cars now, just wanted a stock swap in his coupe to make it to work with)

I'm no pro tuner or any thing either...I just happen to have a dyno, and like to f*ck around with my buddy's cars on the weekends...this was a drag only setup...EGT's were close to dangerous by the end of a 1/4 at WOT, and it was a setup that took a few months of testing at the track and on the dyno to fully realize...and my numbers might be artificially high due to the type of dyno (land and sea) but just for comparison sake initial baseline dyno numbers after the swap were 134 whp and 111wtq...first run at the water/meth kit netted 167whp and 122wtq...I cant find the graph for the final setup, but I know it was over 170whp and 125wtq

My buddy ended up wiring up a swich to turn his alternator off to finally eclipse the 180whp mark at the track (we figured this out when we saw 11 whp increase after losing the alt. belt on the dyno)

I would think that with a good header (hytech or similar) and the mods you already have, and a water meth kit and possibly something better than a VAFC for tuning you could probably do it (btw I tuned that civic on a VAFC too) and keep the timing reasonable so that it wouldn't be such a time bomb as far as EGT's are concerned

we set this car up on such an extremely tight budget it wasn't even funny, I think the total build including the swap, the car, and everything else was less than 2k...not a single brand name part anywhere...I think we we're using a chikara header my buddy grabbed off his old LS, some Ebay chipped p28, and other cheap ways out (hacked up 3 old catbacks to make one work, **** like that)

I basically used his car as a test vehcile to see what could be done with the water/meth systems that are on the market now, I've sold and installed tons of them since then, never had a single complaint...and I've used the AEM kit, the snows kit, a couple of DIY style kits, and installed them on everything from honda's to bmw's to deisel trucks (saw 550 whp and 900wtq on a 6.0L ford turbo diesel with just a 4inch turbo back a CAI and a custom superchips tune...it did blow the heads off it about 6 months later though)

look into it a bit, it might be just the little bit extra you need to make the 180whp mark, your pretty close already, good luck with it, my email is Joe@ondemandperformance.com if you have any questions

 

I made 175whp/130tq on a Dyno Dynamics with my B16 setup.
ITR Head, Supertech Flat Valve, Supertech Valvetrain, Sk2 Pro1s, PerfX intake mani,stock tb, shitty ebay header, stock bottom b16, tuned on Ectune. Spend the money on headwork and get into the bottom end if you fall short.

 

Thanks for the input guys like i said there have been some major advances since i left the game. I dnt think i want to do water meth inj. I want streetable and relaible. The last setup was just awesome..The pwer will be in the head and header i know. When i did CTR pistons on my old setups it really helped the curve. Car was a blast. IS the narrow header a good bet for this application? OR the the tri-y?

 

very informative i have a good deal pendng on a s200 system

 

Chassis and Et's?

 

EF Hatch Chassis, Best time I got was 13.51 on a slick, cant remember my mph but passes were consistently in the 13.5-13.7 range. Probably could have gotten it down lower but i was worried about breaking axles as it was my first time on a slick

 

Toda header has been proven on B16's, I don't know if the narrow has. I would do this here if I were you:

And get rid of that cai...switch to a 3" short ram with stack.

 

^^^The car in my sig was my old sled from about 5 yrs ago...Toda header replica? where can this be found? The narrow header was it designed for b18's?

 

I believe this is Spoolin
http://www.spoolinperformance.com/sp...der-p-464.html

With your new B16 I would start with the following:
a new exhaust, Spoolin header, and at least 2.5" exhaust.
then a P28 ECU with one of the following, Neptune, Crome Pro, ECTune or Hondata
finally the 3" intake with a velocity stack
This should cover all the basics and get you around 135-140 on a Dynojet with room to grow.

 

To be perfectly honest on this set-up I would try a ITR or Skunk2 Pro manifold. The PX manifold is really to big for a b16, unless you reduced the plenum volume to match your set-up.

 

thats exactly the parts list i had in mind.....the header is what throws me. Does anyone have a link to a b16 header shootout? also, those numbers are a lil low i wud expect mid to low 150's?

 

What is "throwing" you about a Toda/Toda copy header? Stop paying attention to dyno #'s, maybe thats contributing to the confusion. Pay attention to your motor, not anyone else's.

 

Its pretty well known that shorter primary headers like the Toda work best on the b16. Toda, toda copy, Vibrant jdm 4-2-1 and old edelbrock 2pc all work well.

Here's my simple setup using the edelbrock.

ctr pistons
Headgames valve job
Bc3+ cams
Ported stock b16 intake manifold
Stock 60mm tb.
3" short ram with VS.
Edelbrock header with 2.5 collector
2.5" exhaust with cat



I later changed to an ITR intake and made more peak power but this setup was more fun to drive.

 

The water/meth kit doesn't have to be tuned so aggresively, that was the one and only instance that I had setup to that level of extreme...and at the end I was using the water/meth kit with 100% meth and then leaning out the injector duty with the VAFC for even more timing advance, had to cut a leg off the dist, advance the intake cam a bunch, all for the sake of adding timing to the motor to get the power out of it that we did, and then the water/meth kit was just there to keep the motor from melting

I didn't realize you don't have the same car any more, I would start with basic bolt ons (good stuff, or at least copies of the good stuff) maybe a set of cams, and grab that s200, and still get a water meth kit, and bring it to a good tuner and see what you can get out of it

that one example was so aggresively tuned because we really didn't have much money tied up in it so we were'nt going to be upset if it grenaded and we we're curious what we could do with it...it was still very reliable (once we switched off of the windshield washer fluid) and with less timing thrown at the motor the EGT dangers would be considerably less, 95% of my water/meth kit installs have been to add reliability to a boosted setup (chemical intercooler, just makes things more efficient, with less heatsoak)

the water meth kit will still net you some gains without adding a ton more timing, you could go back to obd1 with that s200, and just whack the dist. full advance (about 18 degrees) and you would still see benefits from the water meth and be safer than just having the dist. advanced...btw my b18c has been running on 19 degrees base timing for years, but I do get a little pinging every now and then if I put **** gas in it or have alot of weight in the car (I don't have a water meth kit on that car yet)

Im not trying to push a water meth kit on you, I just think you can probably reach your whp goal without spending a ton of money on headwork or replacing pistons, for less than a set of cams installed you can go out and grab any one of the new water meth kits on the market (im partial to snows and aem) and see a good $ per hp gain for the investment, but if you want to stay away from water meth and dont mind opening up the motor then bigger cams and def more compression will do the trick if you can't get there with bolt ons and a tune

 

His goal can easily be met without complicating things using meth injection. No need for that.

 

Water/meth i used on my rx7 before i sold it. It is fun, i just dont think i would need it for this build. So im trying to buy 3 parts this wk I/H/E. So the Toda header,intake? Exhaust? Looked at the Apex'i Noir exhaust...not sure though. This si is clean title and original engine so i just wanna make it quick as these cars are getting harder to find. My last setup did 14.9 in 1/4 with 2.3 60ft times.

p.s. Toda header replica price and where i can get it??

 

Water/meth.....would cause more issues. I am guessing your daily driving this. I would look into different header's, cam's and intake set-ups. with out open then bottom end this will be hard but not it can be done.......I say look into rocket motorsports cams do some headwork and go with a true hytech header or SSR(six sigma racing) or even sprak racing header also. with a good tune you will be close.........

 

IT doesnt have to be 180 it could be 179! hahah My last setup was super reliable plus those numbers were just on stg1 skunk2 cams....i have a dyno sheet from it im gna try and find.
notice the torque curve and a/f's.

 

I made 181 w performer x, toda 295 vtec killers,dc header, greddy sp2 exhaust, motec m400, t1 ignition and cam gear, stock bottom end jdm , 98 itr head.o n a dynojet

 

Et's?? was it a em1? Full weight?