Hi everyone. I'm more like a reader then a poster here at H-Tech but now I need a little help. A Friend of mine recently bought a Civic Si Sedan 07' ( FA5 ), and here in Brazil, we're used to TrackDay Events. So since he's not very good at english, I decided to help him with his setup.

The Car Already Has :

- Injen CAI
- Dastek Unichip Engine Management ( he's thinking about swapping it to Hondata FlashPro )
- Cat Delete

Now we're facing some brake inefficiency problem, that seems to be real in Brazilian Si's. So he's needing a little help on the brake setup at the moment.

We're thinking about Goodridge or Russell Braided Steel brake lines, Motul RBF660 brake fluid and EBC Yellow brake pads. I Came with the idea of Hawk HP Plus (not HPS). Now we have a doubt... Which would be better and why: EBC Yellow or Hawk HP Plus? Changing rotors or calipers are not an option at the moment,

So we need a bit of help deciding this items and finding some reliable online purchase stores that ship worldwide aswell. We are used to buy from SummitRacing but they donīt have any of those pads for the rear axle. The best choice they have for the rear is EBC Red.

Thank you all in advance.

 

swapping rotors is going to give you the biggest advantage. pads only do so much on oem rotors.

 

What I think is, and this is entirely from my head, if you have OEM "everything", you slam on the brakes on a track, and your ABS goes on when your brakes are not fading yet, is because you don't need bigger rotors, the contact area you have is already enough to use all the brake power your system has to give.

Maybe you could use them because of the bigger area, they exchange more heat, but braking capability-wise, if your ABS goes on with the pad area you already have, you already have enough contact area to brake more then your tyres can support.

If you use some racing slicks, or any other tyre that will give you more grip, you can brake more and your ABS won't go on cause your tyre grips so much that it's not going to lock any wheel, I think only in this case you should change rotors/calipers.

Our problem now is concearning brake fading, and durabilityXbraking power of the pads. because the stock pads are too soft, so they go away very soon in a trackday event, and the brake system fades a lot.

 

It sounds like your friend doesn't have enough money for rotors correct? I also hate how the stock civic si braking system fades rather quickly and when I asked a professional at a local brake shop, he told me upgrading my brake pads to Hawks won't benefit me much because I would still have the stock rotor. He says the key to good braking is dissipating the heat caused by constant braking hard braking. And if you want to dissipate heat, he told me to upgrade my rotors to some slotted racing rotors. I ended up just replacing my pads with oem honda pads and getting new tires, Hankook V12 evos. If you want better braking, good tires HELP TREMENDOUSLY as you mentioned. Other than that, I think improving brake fade or getting rid of it requires pads/rotors. Sorry, nothing in this world is free.

 

Here are some thoughts from someone that has spent a decent amount of time on track in multiple vehicles (and that has had a great deal of experience with the Pad options provided from Hawk). Brake fade occurs as a result of increased temperature. In most instances this causes boiling of the fluid in the lines leading to aeration. This in turn leads to a soft or spongy pedal which requires greater pressure and longer travel to apply the same force applied prior to over-heating.

Fluid will make a tremendous difference in the cars resistance to brake fade. Having the braded lines will also allow for a reduced chance of expansion of the line during aggressive use. These two things alone should be revolutionary in regards to the cars performance under high temp usage.

Brake pads are important in this equation because higher performance materials handle increased temps better. Rotors also play a part in this relative to their design in terms of venting heat (1 piece vs. 2 piece for instance and whether the rotor is drilled and/or slotted). I had great results when running HP+ pads on my Mk5 GTI with stock rotors and stainless lines. Brake fade was greatly reduced and due to the pads greater bite and duration lap times were improved. That being said I was running fairly short sessions (<10 laps at a time). Using a good aftermarket slotted rotor will further help with heat dissipation. I do not personally like drilled rotors on cars that see a good deal of track use because they can be more prone to cracking in extreme heat usage.

So, my suggestion for your initial attempt at improved braking will be Motul RBF600 fluid (or similar), HP+ pads, and stock rotors as long as they are not currently warped. If they are, then spring for a nice set of slotted rotors (preferably 1 piece) and head to the track. Let me know if you have any further questions. Thanks,

 

It's not entirely about money, but we're thinking about the least modifications possible that provides a fair improovement. The Stock rotors are good the car has about 26k miles yet, still as good as new, and we've tested another Si that uses RBF660 and HP+, owned by a Formula-3 Racer and the result was impressive, but we're researching to know what similar pads we can use so we can have a choice. And what about online shopping websites ? The ones I know are Summit racing and Weksos, but i'm sure there's a lot more reliable websites to purchase fropm, i just don't know them.

and just FYI: We're used to doing 10-12 laps stints on the track, like 1~2 to heat everything up and 1~2laps for cooling everyting down, so we have like 8 hardcore laps, and the RVF660 + HP+ pads provided good result on this conditions.

Thanks for the help everyone.

 

Here's a direct link to a website in which alot of us 06+ Si owners buy parts from. http://www.corsportusa.com/store/cat...a&filter_id=25

And they do ship international, just not for free.

 

Thank you all guys for the help and the infos. Any other part of the project that we need help i'll come to this topic again.

And Spec-01, do you have any experience with other Brands/specs of pads besides Hawk HP+ ?