What is the goal, what are we trying to build here?

In a nutshell, I am laying the ground work here for my winter project. I want to build a tube chassis front wheel drive car, that's faster on the dragstrip and SCCA solo events, than my existing front wheel drive car. To do this, I'm relying mostly on having this new car be perhaps 33% lighter, adding massive front and rear wings, and appropriately wide tires for the situation. Going to look like those cool Pikes peak hill climb cars or the cars I see in the SCCA a-mod class (see pics below). Just resemble it, or take styling from them, not duplicate them. Doesn't have to be legal for that class when we are done. Styling ques from those cars, is what will happen, not direct rules matching builds.

Present car is a 1991 EF sedan with a ROCK STOCK b16a1 and a header. Car is super light and handles well. It's run 13.67@100 (which is VERY respectable for a rock stock B16) and I've run it competitively on a local level with the SCCA doing solo stuff. I'm happy with it but it's just not as fast, or stuck as I'd like. It's always our "go-to" fun car... but I think it's time to make some changes. We either throw a lot of money at engine upgrades or build a lighter car with more aerodyamic grip. I think that's a more clever approach, and more fun for me and what I like to do, which is build stuff.

I have a lot of Honda parts, 1989-1995, spare cars, rollers, parts, etc. It would make the build easier if we built this new car out of things I am more familiar with and have spares for. This will make the car cheaper, make the build quicker and make maintenance easier as I have everything already, and spares. Shouldn't need to buy much (there's some famous last words).

This race car is going to be made out of as many factory Honda parts as I can make work. Lower control arms, struts, you name it. I want this to be something people look and feel, "HEY, I could do that".

The real fun thing. I want to do it for less than $2000 out of pocket. and that includes buying a donor car. I've already scrounged a donor car. A 1992 Integra with a b16 swap. I went with the TEG, instead of using my EF parts cars because my EF's are all D-series cars with drum brakes in the back. This new Teg of mine has a B swap and rear disc brakes. That's a better starting point and will save me money down the road as I have a LOT of B parts and not much D, right down to spare trannys and axles. just easier, more power, and more spares in stock.

parameters: We are not starting off with a clean slate or "open book". It's an open book build as long as you realize that page one starts like this. "drive your 1992 integra into the shop and begin". We're not changing the car. That's the donor. and this will be front wheel drive. (it's what I have parts for. Makes the most sense for me to go this route and it sounds super fun!).

Parameters: And these are likely to change as we get rolling.
a) Doesn't have to be legal for any "particular" class of racing.
b) Doesn't have to work amazingly well, just better than a stock EF.
c) Doesn't have to look good.
d) It's okay for it to be utterly inferior to rwd.
e) I'm running FWD now, enjoy it, have spares.
f) it's okay if it's not as fast as something else I could build "instead". I don't want to build something else instead.
g) I'm not trying to race other cars in a class, only trying to go faster than my other FWD car.
h) I think I'd like it to be street legal, and in Montana, this is relatively easy. It would be awesome if I could license it as the Integra and use the vin. I know the people that make those decisions and will find out how to go about it. Makes the car that much more useful and FUN!!!! And I can use the TEG wiring harness to make wiring the lights a breeze (relatively).
i) Probably going to need to be a 2-seater. I've read that some track days require instruction with ride alongs. Want to be ready for that in case it happens. If it doesn't, it doesn't. Need to prepare anyway.
j) We're building my race car, not yours. Don't take it personally if I'm not on-board with any particular suggestions. But I'm open minded to ideas, and love a heated discussion on fabrication.

Styling inspiration: Will end up looking like a mix of the following cars.











and likely, more like this one below, with the wings tossed on it. This GT4 Renault Encore debuted at the 1984 SCCA runoffs and was raced by Doug Peterson.

 

Here's what I'm trying to beat, my EF (pic at the bottom). No greater goal for this project than simply going faster than that car. And it's a Super fun car. We've had a lot of fun with this car. I'll show the donor car when I get it. It'll be here by the weekend.

Initial design ramblings.
I've read a bit about the SCCA's tubing and weight qualifiers. I've decided to build it out of a mix of 1.625 .120 wall mild steel and 1.625 .083 chrome moly tubing, TIG on the moly. This will put me over on the SCCA side and in-line on the NHRA side. Car won't be overly fast at the strip. I'm thinking mid 12's @ 110 is about where it will end up. That's assuming 150whp and around 1300 pounds (which an absolute guess). I already have the SFI equipment necessary to run open cockpit cars, which this would be. We built a vintage front engine dragster just over a year ago. I learned about those rules. And have cert'd 2 other cars in the last year.

I've got this idea where I might use some front suspension pieces for the rear of the car so I can control toe-in (and it will be lighter which is nice). I have lot's of spindles laying around. Not sure on that one yet. Just putting it out there. I may make my own arms, haven't decided yet. That's the kind of thing I like to make so I don't want to rule it out.

I know I want power steering. It's hard to man handle wide front tires without power steeing on a car with 4 turns lock to lock, and take one hand off to shift. So, power steering, possibly electric, and steering rate improved to say 2 turns lock to lock. I want to be able to heal toe this baby and bang gears while sliding into a corner. It just wasn't possible in the EF with the slicks and the heavy steering. it was a 2 handed affair. Gonna address that, a lot! I come and go on the debate as to how much drag you lose running the pump versus the load on the alternator to run the electric motor. BUT, what it does that I like is allow mounting the pump somewhere else, preferably on the front right side instead of left. to help balance the car.

I'd like to be able to run the cool 13" cantilever slicks you can pick up used on fleaBay. I've got some now that we've run, but you need a rim with very little offset to make them work. We'll iron out the offset issue when that time comes. But I want super wide tires. I like the look, so we need to make provisions for them to work properly. See picture of orange wheels on the trailer.. .Those (second picture below). and we had them on that white Rex in the photo, with about 5/8" of spacer to clear.

 

Great write up and can't wait for the build to start.


Subscribed.

 

I'm up for tubing discussion, as I need to pick up more tubing in the next 3 days. I've got plenty of 1.625 moly to get started, about 150 feet, but you burn through that pretty fast on chassis/cage work. I'd like to pick up some mild steel DOM to have on hand for filler.

I'm of the opinion as long as correct welding processes are followed that I can use a mix of moly (save weight) and mild steel where appropriate. Most of our stuff is one metal or the other. Some things on a car are easier MIG'd, and some tubes on the car I want to be mild steel for that reason.

100' of .120 wall 1.625 weighs 192 pounds.
100' of .083 wall 1.625 weighs 136 pounds.

 

I've also got a thing going right now for quick release pins. these things.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MOR-90430/

Expect to see those used in the build for things like my cluster mount. How'd you like to pull your cluster in less than 2 seconds with no tools? I like it.

Talk is cheap, we'll see how it goes. But I'd at least like to have the Teg stripped in the next 3-4 weeks and some initial chassis layout done.

 

Okeedokee. Got my donor car in my yard. So I can truly discuss it.

1992 Integra with a b16. I plan to use as much of the car as possible to make this tube car. More pictures in a day or two, and maybe we should get a good burnout video going to.

It's the car on the back of the trailer.

 

if u can post some vids on the build as well. good luck!!!

 

Right front suspension is a mess.

Lower ball joint buggered up. The axle nut wasn't tightened all the way down (but somebody took the time to peen it over anyway, 4 rotations short of being on), and the CV had fallen out of the transmission and has buggered that up. All the cotter pins are missing and both front wheels only had 3 lugnuts on them. And the left front lower ball joint was actually loose and resting on the when I got it up on the lift. no cotter pin on that one either.

i just want to get it together and drive it around for a few days before we take it apart. Make sure everything is working NOW, lot easier to diagnose and work on a car you can street drive, rather than a track car.

 

in for this! should be a fun build to watch Vector, good luck!

 

in for this as well! Love to see different types of builds on here and i like how youre gonna use a front wheel drive setup. My buddy brought home a tube chassis he made at wyotech and got me thinkin about doing a build like yours. Except not nearly as much power and it wont ever see the track, just a little quick full car sized go kart. This deffinantly will give me inspiration. good luck cant wait till you start.

 

Definitely in for this...can't wait for progress. Good luck man

 

Thanks, I'm gonna need it.

You know what's funny about that... I bought the Teg off of a dude at Wyotech... AND got a tour while I was down there on Friday. The place impressed me a LOT! I want to go back to school now.

That's what I'm thinking too. More of a full sized FWD go-kart. Kinda dealio.

It got a bit tougher tonight.

Worked on the TEG for a few hours. It threw the right front axle out. I was told it was the first time... no way it could have been. The axle can't seat. Something is assembled wrong in the transmission and the part of the CV cup that seats in the seal, can't seat. It's been sticking out like .4" or so and can't seat.

I checked it with a junk B-series trans I have laying around, WAY different looking in that area where the CV enters the trans. Something is up with that one in the car. I'm gonna send some pictures to James at the Speedfactory, he's the trans guru. Can't be used as is though. I have to get a new seal, shims, rebuild it or something. But that axle will never seat. And it's not the axle, I checked it against a new in the box spare I keep around, and it seated poorly as well. both seated perfectly in my junk trans.

Right off the bat... Trans trouble. Well, better now than later. I'm pulling it all anyway, BUT I didn't get to do a proper burnout in the car yet.

 

Here's the Donor. Anybody locally needs anything off the car, let me know.





Yep, that rim above has a bump in it.









These 17" Tenzo's are kinda obscure. I couldn't find any. or there just old.

 

More of the donor car.

 

This could be interesting..

 

in for this !

 

The axle not seating thing... yea, turns out the wrong seal had been in it the whole time. that axle has never been fully seated, ever, and surely had popped out several times in the past for other owners.

Somebody somewhere put the wrong outer seal in, it was to small. It looked okay to look at it, but it wouldn't let the last bit of the axle past so it could seat.

SOOooo, go the axle back in, everything buttoned up, put 4 nuts on each wheel, not 3, and we're gonna flog this thing in the next day or so and see what else is weak before we tear start stripping the car. I want to see if it's throwing any codes, before we tear all the wiring out. At least then we'll know it worked before we started.

And I'm curious how the snychros are in the trans. I bet 3rd grinds... There will be a proper smokey burnout video, don't you worry about THAT!!!

The one on the left is the one that sucks... I ordered a new one but hammered in this old one used one (on the right) so we could drive the car.

 

this should be a good one!

 

in for this also

 

Drove it.

Starts good, runs and idles good. Does a decent enough burnout. Rear brakes need adjusting to really take it over the top.

I don't think it's coming on vtec. Doesn't sound right. 3rd gear grinds *totally called it*.

Shot some video, hope to get it edited and up in the week or so.

 

Good stuff man! Can't wait for vids.

 

Well, here ya go. This is the video that basically shows the donor. Next video we start taking it apart. Gonna be a few weeks on that one.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8XSTlBhMks

 

This is gunna be cool, in for this Vector. Good production

 

The weather took a serious crap on us. been busy digging out. Took that time to weld up a little one.

I was having trouble visualizing how to do the front end, so I started whipping one out in miniature. it's not to scale or in ANYWAY accurate. just me trying to get a grip on the 2 front frame rails. That's the donor Teg, posing as a snow drift, and that was 2 days ago... it's still snowing, and we're still digging out.

The frame horns/rails around the engine, would be strong enough to support everything just fine, with no additional re-enforcement (3rd picture). So anything other tubing we add is just to make it stiff. Plus the engine will utilize 3 mounts, making it part of the assembly and locking things down. strut tower brace over the engine will be removable on the full size one.

I think I now have a good grip on the direction I want to take with the front rails.

 

subscribed. SNOW oh NOES!