It's pretty simple question for those of you that have rebuilt engines. I don't plan on making a career out of it, just wanna learn and do a couple mild rebuilds. I like harbor freight for alot of things but I didn't know if I should go the cheap rout for the more specialized tools. If you have other sugestions feel free to let me know. Thanks for any help as I will be planning to get these things soon

Would you trust buying and using these tools from Harbor Freight? If not what brands have you learned to trust? :::

1: Micrometer


2: Dial bore gauge

3: 2-3" machinist measurement tool and 3-4" machinist measurement tool

4: Ring filer

5: Tap set

6: Ring compressor

7: Feeler gauges

8: Torque wrench ( this is one I don't want to cheap out on, but don't know where to get a decent one at a good price)


Really 5, 6, 7 should be fine I just put it them in the list as they are things that I will need.

If there is any other basic things I left off this list? If so please give me some insight.

ThankZ for the feedback

 

Obviously I'm a noob and on a tight budget. I use them alot for hand tools and even got the engine stand from them. It's just that the measurements are so important, I didn't want to get something that would be off and screw my life up. lol

 

 

You will need a 2-4" dial bore gauge.
You will need a 0-4" micrometer set.
Ring filer
Rod bolt stretch gauge
Torque wrench
Scissor-type ring compressor
Standard feeler gauges for measuring piston ring end gap as well as valve lash

Important consumables:
Assembly lube
Scotch brite
LINT FREE rags
brake kleen
Wd-40

You should have taps anyway....but i wouldnt call them necessarry. I normally just spray holes down with brake clean and then use compressed air to clean out debri/oil. A tap wont remove debri or oil.

If your mics and dial bore gauge aren't good to the ten thousandth (.0001), do NOT get them. I use shars bore gauges/mics. They do the job for me. The most important part is repeatability and their mics have that. My dial bore gauge is repeatable to .0001. I plan on upgrading some time because I just don't see my shars gear lasting forever, but its hard to find authentic, new mitutoyo or browne and Sharpe stuff. New fowler stuff isn't fowler anymore. Its just fowler badged china crap with a higher pricetag.

What brand does hft use for mics/dial bore gauge and what scale do they measure to?



Brake-kleen

 

Bore Gauge is Cen-Tech:

Electronic readout
Displays Metric or SAE units
Gauge accuracy: 0.0002'' /0.005 mm
Includes anvil sizes 1.4", 1.6", 1.8", 2.0", 2.2", 2.4", 2.6", 2.8", 3.0", 3.2", 3.4", 3.6", 3.8"

The mics are same brand and only Graduations: 0.001'', also only go up to 3" so I guess those are out.
Is a rod bolt stretch gauge needed, I've heard a few say they don't use them at all?

Thankz for the reply, I'm trying to get the best I can on a budget but I do realize how important these tools will be for the engines servival

 

Good tools are expensive. That being said, if you get some "budget" precision measurement tools and they cannot measure down to the .0001" or you cannot get the desired level of consistency, than they are absolutely no good to you.

Mitutoyo and Starret are pretty respected names in the industry. Central isnt quite as good IMO. Expect to spend a grand easy in precision measurement tools. Shop around and wait for good deals. Also talk to your local machine shop. Sometimes they have people getting out of the biz and unloading their tools for cheap...
My opinion is to buy quality tools so you get quality measurements. The only thing I might go cheap on are the feeler guages and the engine stand. You might can get away with an off brand micrometer set as long as it goes down to .0001" and you can get consistent with them. Snap-on makes nice torque wrenches.
Buy the correct tool once and youll never have to buy it again!

 

Well said!

 

all comes down to $$ the above post has you spending more on tools than you probably expected to on your rebuild. without machine work being done everywhere there's a certain part of me that wonders how accurate you can really get. 200k blocks have deflection, the cranks aren't 100% perfects, the mains aren't perfectly straight anymore but quite a few rebuilds live if you setup on the looser end of factory spec. i think for a budget rebuild you'll be fine. SK makes a nice torque wrench for the budget minded guy. $100 should get you a 1/2" one if you shop. sears also sells theirs on black friday for $59 every year. the rod bolt stretch gauge is something else you don't need. the cost of it would likely pay for a set of new arp bolts. why check existing if you can replace? know what i mean? great tool for a shop but if you're only doing a couple motors the rod bolts are probably the most stressed connector in an engine. if you have to choose one set of bolts to replace, this is them.

 

I bought those Cen-Techs for the hell of it (they're only like $40) and when I compared them to a Mitutoyo, they were actually pretty close! I was surprised. Obviously, they don't read down to the tenth like the Mitutoyo's can, but you can get pretty close (within a few tenths) by looking at how close the marks line up to the 1/2 way marks between each .001" increment.

Considering that the micrometers are basically just a "standard" to which you set your bore gauge to when doing clearances, I would probably just use them for my own personal use. For customers and the more radical builds, I'd use the higher quality instruments.

 

If it doesn't read to. 0001, it's useless. Also you can likely get away most of the time just torqing your rod bolts, however if you ever measure stretch from arp's recommended torque values theyre off. Ask any aftermarket rod bolt manufacturer, they'll recommend measuring stretch for a proper install, or at least I know ARP does. There are too many variables to get a consistent stretch with the torque/loosen 3x method. This is why aftermarket rod bolts have the dimples on both ends of the bolt itself.

If you shop around on ebay/amazon you might get lucky with used mitutoyo tools. If not, Shars has done wonders for me. Craftsman torque wrench here for me as well.

 

This is the standard method of using a bore gauge. You never use the bore gauge by itself. You zero it out against your mic. You won't normally use your bore gauge to measure a clearance greater than .0050 depending on what type of pistons you're using theyre also useful for measuring cylinder taper. Good measuring tools are also useless if you don't know how to use them, or even where to use them.

 

Why do you say that? Usually bearing clearances are in a range of about .0005" which is well within the capabilities of the Cen-tech mics.

I agree that you can usually be okay with just torquing the bolts, but that is because almost every time I measured it, ARP's torque recommendation with their moly lube was within the range of stretch. From the 7/16" ARP2000 bolts that come in aftermarket rods, to stock metric or SAE rod bolts, they were almost always correct. Once or twice they were a little under, but another 5-10ft-lbs fixed that.

 

I think that the more expensive instruments are more expensive because they are more accurate, which 90% of the time, accuracy isn't really required. It's precision that seems to be more important. The Cen-Techs seem to be adequate enough to build an engine, but the higher quality mics are probably needed more in other fields of machining.

 

I wouldnt cheap out on the micrometer OR the torque wrench myself, Plus I have NEVER had any luck with tool's of any sort from harbor fake...Sears makes a fairly decent torque wrench for not a ton of money and if you are only using it from time to time I think you will be plenty fine with it, However if you are looking for something that is going to be much more accurate and of better build quality I say spend the money the right way the first time and go with either a snapon,matco, or mac tool's unit as I have found them to be much more accurate and generally hold up alot better

One thing to keep in mind is that while sears say's they have a "lifetime" warranty they dont really tell you the entire story, There "lifetime" warranty is ONLY if you are not using the tool everyday, If you are a mechanic or someone who works on car's everyday and therefore uses your tool's everyday they will either not warranty it or at least TRY not to warranty the item.

For instance I do car audio install's and ahve been doing them for a living for various shop's for the last 13 years, Well one day I snapped a 3/8" drive ratchet and went back to sears wearing my work's uniform and the managers of 3 different sears stores told me that since I use the tool everyday that it does not include a "lifetime" warranty because that warranty was only designed for people who use it occasionally at home as they are not meant to take a daily beating...Needless to say I was extremely pissed off and called sears corporate who I also had to argue with but in the end they gave me a replacement ratchet AND a 100 dollar gift card

That may not be everyones experience but it is something to keep in mind

 

Thats pretty retarded, tinctorus. But I would have just gone in there with normal clothes to save having to go to 3 different stores and calling their customer service. I've never had an issue with Sears replacing my hand tools(ratchets, breaker bars, wrenches). I guess it depends on location.

To keep on topic, HF tools will do your normal garage engine builder just fine. I have a set of HF micrometers and they measure to .0005". Not the most accurate, but its repeatable and once you've learned how to use them you can start "guesstimating" the in-between marks. Knowing how to use your tools is a lot more important than the quality.

If you have the money, nothing beats quality tools. If I could afford it, I'd have Mitutoyo and Snap-On all over my garage.

 

I just like knowing everything exact. I like to size my bearings exactly to what I WANT them to be...not just see if they fall within a range of specs. Same goes to piston to cylinder wall clearance. Additionally, oem honda specs as well as aftermarket parts suppliers list their clearances to the. 0001. I guess its personal preference. I don't like getting away with things or using methods that should work. In my book, it is either the proper manner, proper tool, and proper technique used or its not. Call it OCD, but I pay attention to detail.

 

I will be Sears bound black fri

Maybe I should have explained that this engine I'm getting ready to play with is a Y7 and my to do list is nothing special:
Check bearings
Hone/deglaze cylinders
Check for warpage and other clearances
and any other basic thing I'm forgeting atm.

Basically Just doing oem spec maintenance to the block. I may send the head (Z6) off depending on how things go. But I will prolly give it a wirl The build may get a small bump if all goes well and money rains down from heaven. If I can get by with them for just 3 little, simple, boring, D-series rebuilds then not only did they pay for themselves but it would also give me time to get the "good for a life time" tools that we all want.

Thankz for the replies, Just tryin to learn and not shoot myself in the foot

 

For reference, on occassion, I have had to replace whole ring sets because I filed .001 more than I planned to.

 

Wait, if its a D and you do plan on getting a bore gauge, you will need one in the 1.4-2.4 range for bearing clearance measurements.

 

I'm kinda leaning towards getting one "worthy" mic that I could check spec of the other HFT piece? If I do this it would still save me some cash and I can get on with the build alot faster. I also need a suggestion on where to get a straightedge?

 

where do they do this? honda has a range for clearance setup and so do the aftermarket makers.

mahle for example. PWC .0025-.0035, even cast pistons you don't set up tighter than .001. what in the world would you measure to .0001?

 

http://www.shars.com/products/view/1...Micrometer_Set

This is a tad high but do able. And the bore gauge is only about $20 more than HFT also. Will it be Shars FTMFW? I don't know but I'm glad I asked, I may not have found these other options easily

 

I do totally agree, it's not like I'm building 1000whp high performance drag demons. Hell my "shop" is a closed in back porch, I have a tranny sitting in my bedroom floor. I've seen plenty of crackers not use half of whats on my list. just slap it together and let the gods take over.

 

Bearings are an example. And oem piston to wall is. 0004-.0016 actually. And if you look in a helms, specs are supplied to the. 0001 for 99% of anything requiring a mic. What if as a builder, .0004 is too tight for you but you want to run .0008? What if in the range you supplied for mahle pistons, I want to run .0028, because .0025 is too tight for me and I didn't like previous results at .0035. Those are the suggested ranges. But I like to be able to run the EXACT measurements I want, not just what the manufacturer tells me is a safe range. Although .0025-35 is acceptable in your example, ten thousands on either end will produce different results. Were measuring down to 10 thousandths for a reason....one thousanth difference or even 5ten thousandths is a big deal to me, and many pro builders will tell you the same. I was merely giving my input, if no one agrees, fine. But with precise measurements, you never have to cross your fingers on initial startup.

 

SMH. EVERYTHING.