Going to try and keep this short but here are the basics. This was a new ppg straight cut set and had a couple passes on it when 3rd gear started to feel notchy going in and grind even sitting still and trying to go into 3rd. every other gear feels like butter going in just third was the only issue. Then the next 3 passes it locked me out unless I let the revs come down a lot. Also these were brand new synchros when the trans was put together so no worn out parts. Not sure what happened here but something isn't right here. I was going to replace the 3/4 synchros,springs,hub,slider but when I took the trans apart I noticed 3rd gear teeth wore down. Tonight I further inspected everything and all the gears but first look to be getting wear really bad. Even 4th gear has some wear and the car has only been in 4th gear on the dyno. Had issues with get getting in third so let off and haven't had a clean pass.

here is 4th gear. notice it's in very good shape but a small bit of wear


here is 3rd gear



here is 2nd gear


any ideas on this? I know when I ordered this set I got the last one they had. my stock gears only had wear on 2nd fairly good the other stock gears looked brand new and they were beat on for a couple years and 50,000 miles on the trans before I got it.

 

When the trans was assembled with all new parts, was it taken immediately to the track and shifted hard at high rpm?

When we first started running the Albins synchro set, we put all new stuff in it and went to the track, FTS'd it at 10K rpm. It lasted for just 2-3 passes, and then it didn't want to shift either. Upon disassembly we found the same wear to the engagement teeth that you have. So we ordered a new replacement ring (a huge advantage of the Albins imo) and replaced the synchro set again.

We then gave the tranny some break-in time to seat the new synchros to the cones by driving it for ~200 hundred miles and shifting it as much as possible during that time. We then took it to the track and resumed the 10K rpm full throttle shifts, and had no issues.

After 30 some passes like this, it started getting a bit difficult to get into 3rd again. 3rd showed some wear on the engagement teeth again (not nearly as bad though and only had an issue at very high rpm), and once again those parts were replaced. All good again.

Moral of the story is that new synchros need some wear-in with new parts to work well with high rpm, fast shifts. The new full carbon lined synchros for Synchrotech will likely be your best bet in the future. No matter what though, a synchro set will have a severely shortened lifespan when used in a drag car that is shifted hard at very high rpm.

 

we went through all the gears on the dyno for break in. . each gear except for 5th(stock gear). Now I don't know what to do I feel like this new gearset is a big paperweight. all gears went in fine except for 3rd though and yes it seems to be the worse

 

Do u release the throttle when u shift???

 

Unfortunately, dyno time alone probably isn't enough to let the synchros wear-in to the cones. You could always burnish them in to speed up the process if you don't have the luxury of doing some street driving. This is one of those areas where deciding on a synchro vs dog box can be tough. A dedicated track car really needs a dogbox.

Hindsight is great, but it really sucks that you now have to buy all new gears as well as the synchro sets. We hated that about the PPG stuff as it gets crazy expensive real quick. With the Albins gearsets the 3/4 rings are replaceable on both the dog and synchro sets, and that has saved us a lot of money. You will eventually need to replace those parts on any gearset due to normal wear and tear. Good luck with the repairs.

 

No... but my stock gears took 4 years of abuse at 500whp of track and street driving and when I pulled them out 2nd was the only wore down one. We did maybe 2 hours of breaking in trans/motor on the dyno before starting to tune it then out to the track that next week.

 

put that stock box back in and run it till it blows...

 

Lift off the throttle when u shift...that won't happen unless u miss a gear ....it won't slow the car either

 

It looks to me like you could have been trying to cram it into gear before the clutch was disengauged. In other words, your timing was off a little. You need to work on getting the clutch to release quicker. Are you using a stock clutch master? If you use a bigger master, it will move more fluid with the same pedal movement. Put in a 3/4" master and move the pedal higher with a clutch stop. This should release the clutch faster, and match your clutch release and shifting timing better. As far as the way the gears look, those burrs on the dog teeth of the gears are whats hurting you. I usually take a dremel and remove the burrs and return the rounded shape back into a point. You can get away with doing this a few times.
BTW- this is exactly what happened to my car when you beat me in the finals at IFO. LOL Mine were lasting about two events and doing the same thing. I changed to the 3/4" master and problem solved.

 

Look at the wear pattern on the gears too.... looks like you may have a shimming issue as well. Something to consider....

 

that's one of my debates just to get a couple passes this year before winter hits. my stock 2nd is pretty wore though I wouldn't want to throw it back in. I know I have to replace the ppg 3rd gear for sure and the other gears just debur them and they will be good for now. idk it's one of those decision things I need to figure out quickly I was hoping to make WCF at MIR.

 

yes it will slow the car. FTS actually helps more than you think. Even letting off won't help because we are still shifting fast enough for it not to slow down.

 

Great Danny I did have a small clutch issue my first time out so thats most likely what did it then and one the dog teeth were rounded it just got worse. I'm going to see if I can just get a new 3rd and dremel 2nd and 4th. 2nd and 4th really aren't rounded off but just some burrs and wear marks so glad I caught it before it got worse. I will also change to a 3/4 ms i've been meaning to do that ever since i put the new clutch/trans in but been putting it off. doesn't the 3/4'' ms come out of the teg? what kind of debur tool did you use. post up a pic link for me if you would

 

I noticed that as well. I am going to clearance everything and go through all of it before it goes back together.

 

If you have not already, check out the B-series dog box install video here in the drag forum. Good info there....

 

I saw the thread but didn't sit down to watch the video. I will do that tonight as soon as I get settled down

 

My tranny had the exact same issue.... We changed the 2-3 hears once and went through 5-8 synchro/hub/sleeve sets before going dogbox!

 

Man... Sucks to hear as I just dropped 3k on this set now I pretty much have to find a dogbox. And to top it off can't even sell this gearset

 

None of the cars come with a 3/4" master stock. I bought a Tilton master and made an adaptor plate to make it fit. You can buy a kit from Tilton that has a hydraulic slave, 3/4" master, and adaptor plate. As far as the deburr tool, I use the dremel with a cut off wheel. You would be suprised at how bad some of them haev looked and shifted like butter after I was done with them. I can do them for you if you would like.

 

If you are set on switching to dog engagement, then send the PPG gears to Liberty and have them faceplated. Hey presto, you now have a PPG/Liberty dog gear set.

 

as of right now liberty only does b series faceplating they havent done any k stuff yet

 

Looks like possibly your clutch is not fully disengaging

 

More info on this please... I've seen these for b's but never really done the research.

 

Are the new synchros toy put in oem or aftermarket? If they are aftermarket, what brand are they?

 

they are the stock carbon coated ones. Got them from synchrotech they are not the actual synchrotech parts though. some k20 synchros were carbon I believe the jdm or the ep3 ones not quite sure Dave got them for me. they were all new sets.

I really think there was a clutch issue that caused this. I've already spoken to mark at ppg and he is taking good care of me for the new parts to get me back on the track. That is a huge help to me and I can't say enough good things about them.