I have a 1990 Civic wagon.

Due to a number of extenuating circumstances I was left with little choice but to run a poly rear trailing arm bushings (will be referred to as "RTA" bushing from here on out) because the stock fixed rubber ones would not line up.

Click HERE for info on why I went the poly RTA bushing route.

Anyways I've never liked the idea of poly RTAs but here's what I've got:



So basically I have done some suspension work and realigned my 1990 Civic wagon, and since the repairs the back end feels very vague. When wrenching the steering wheel back and forth quickly it literally feels like the back end is lagging behind the front end, as if there is a lot of body roll/lag back in the rear of the vehicle. My 2005 Element feels more stable when steering quickly.

So I'll give you guys the before and after set-up to see what your thoughts are.

Before:

Eibach Pro Street S full coil-overs for EF sedan/hatchback
DA Integra front sway bar
Front camber -1.7; toe was 0
Rear camber -2.2; toe was 0 (dead center stock spec is .08)
Stock RTA bushings (hard to tell how long they were ripped)

After - everything the same except for:

Rear camber set to -1.0 using longer grade 10 upper control arms bolts + shims
Rear toe set to dead center stock specs of .08 degrees
SPC rear toe links (stocks would not allow toe to be in spec after such large amounts of camber correction/taking negative camber away by 1.2 degrees)
Poly RTA bushings without fixed mounting ears

I have owned a few EFs before, and also currently have an EH2 with a very similiar alignment set up. None of my former cars, nor the numerous customers' cars I've aligned and camber corrected drive like my wagon. I'm worried that perhaps the trailing arms are actually moving laterally when I steer sharply. I feel as if in the event I needed to swerve hard to avoid something the back end might keep swaying and allow me/force me to lose control. It's a hard to descibe, uneasy feeling from the back end.

So what do you guys think?

I'm leaning towards going back with a stock design rubber RTA bushing with fixed mounting ears like so:



The only problem is that the fixed design will definitely be tweaked hard due to the large change in trailing arm angle since the camber correction has forced me to shorten up the toe arm a lot in order to achieve the dead center .08 rear toe specs I've got.

I have only widened the rear track by setting the camber out to only -1.0 degrees. I cannot tell if the change in overall geometry is the biggest offender, or if the poly RTAs are binding, of if the poly non-fixed mounting ear design is allowing for radical lateral movement of my trailing arms, etc. are making the back end feel so wishy washy.

Thoughts?

 

What was the rear camber at with the stock upper control arms?

Edit: Whoops, I see -2.2 degrees. How did it drive with the stock rear upper control arms?

Let it be said that I have never been a fan of camber "correction" or the polyurethane TA bushings (or polyurethane in a number of other bushing locations).

 

I bought a full energy suspension kit for my car, but tossed it on the shelf and installed a complete PIC hard rubber bushing kit instead rather than messing with the horror stories of poly.

I highly recommend PIC bushing. They are rubber, not poly, but are 30% stiffer than oem and last just as long

I bought my complete set for 230 shipped

 

Well I wouldn't have corrected the camber had my tires not worn on the insides more than the rest of the tires. My toe settings were dead on perfect after two years except for the left front, which was only out because the outer tie rod had developed some play.

I've never been an advocate of "you have to set your camber at zero to get even tire wear" but I have also been shown, with wearing the first set of tires out unevenly, that dead center spec toe with more-than-factory-spec camber CAN wear the insides of your tires prematurely.

This is a multi-page debate in and of itself (as evidenced by the stickied camber it topic lol) and had I not owned/driven other EFs with very similar camber settings (-1.5 to -2.0 front; -1.0 rear) and they drove fine I'd not have went this route.

Poly RTA bushings?

Yeah trust me I've never been a fan. I've read of the bump steer, the binding, etc. etc. Thing is this is a 100% street car, daily driven, and not one for hot lapping. Before I had decided on the SPC adjustable toe links I was using shorter fixed toe arms, and when using those I literally could not get the mounting ears to line up on the RTA bushing and the unibody of the car to even get the bolts started for them.

I've still got the first set of RTA bushings I bought when I found my originals torn - they are an aftermarket rubber RTA bushing with fixed mounting ears just like stock.

Now that I've got the adjustable toe links on I can simply lengthen them enough to line up the stock RTA bushing mounting bolts/holes and use the stock style rubber RTA bushing. Then after tightening the RTA bushing bolts I can use the adjustable toe links to get the desired toe. This will absolutely be stretching the rubber RTA bushing though, as in with the amount of camber/toe correction I have the trailing arm sits further in than it does when it's stock, so the RTA bushing will be "pulled" or "stretched" inward since its mounting ears are fixed.

You'd think that with fixed upper control arms, fixed lower control arms, and a fixed toe link that the RTA bushing would serve as not much more than just a pivot, and that the trailing arm could not slide easily side to side on a non-fixed mounting ear RTA bushing...

I bought an ES "Master Set" poly bushing kit for my 1992 Civic back in 2002. It didn't come with poly RTA bushings, and I'd have not used them anyways because that car was intended for auto-X/road racing, thus I knew better. I did use all the other poly control arm bushings, etc. etc. I've never had any problems with any of them, still.

When I purchased the RTA bushings for this wagon I was very strapped for cash. I had already wasted about $80.00 on the stock replacement rubber RTA bushings that I could not even get lined up with the bolt holes for them, and then was forced to buy a non-fixed mounting ear RTA bushing set you see pictured in my first post.

Then I had to buy SPC adjustable toe links because no stock fixed toe link I could find allowed for the rear toe to be set in spec - the stockers were either too short, or too long.

I will attempt to swap out the poly RTA bushings for stock type rubber ones some time in the next few weeks if time allows, then see if my wishy washy/loose back end problem goes away.

Until that time does anyone else have any input?

Because this:



Shouldn't feel less stable/sure footed than this:



...and right now it does.

 

Just curious if you've gotten this problem fixed yet, I would have to say its cause your not running a fixed RTA bushing. I am looking at tracking my ef hatch and my bushings are beyond shot so I'm still figuring out what RTA bushings to use (but you've convinced me on that) but ill be using the ES ones all over the rest of the car.

 

I've been tracking some horribly annoying squeaks and rattles from the inside hatch area lately. It was worn out strikers for the hatch latch and seat back latches.

Building a GS-R transmission, new mounts, new clutch, new shift linkage is up next...

Then I'll tackle these damn RTAs again.

 

i have full Energy Susp master kit on my EF with Prothane poly RTA bushings (non-fixed)
Its lowered about 2" and Im using an Ingalls camber kit
Using OEM EF civic toe links i have -1 camber on each side and zero total toe. I did the alignment myself. My car feels tighter than almost any other street car ive driven and is very responsive. Romping around corners yields nothing but smooth predictable handling with no slop or binding of any type. Please remember that the RTA bushing from the factory was never meant to be used with the angles forced upon them by lowering the car as much as we do. Also, the rta bushing is merely a single axis pivot point in the suspension. if all other links are doing their job there should be no side-to-side movement of the RTA bushing anyways.
i know this thread is pretty old but the OP conjured up a bunch of hoopla without putting any of it to rest.

I would never put an OEM RTA on a lowered car, having done several suspensions with both now and seeing how stressed the oem fixed unit is when at ride height. talk about unwanted preload!