ive been to a couple track events and am starting a build for a track car. was wondering on everyones thoughts on which way to go. stuck between allmotor b20vtec or a boosted b18. this will mostly b a track car with some driving on streets for fun, not a daily. with the boost was planning on running 2 maps. around 250 whp for track and 350ish for street. the allmotor goal is 240whp. any opinions??

 

boost is definitely the cheaper route

 

hmm, i too am wondering which would be better for an autox/time attack car.
the car im building now has a boosted d15b7 and i was thinking about taking the turbo off to get familiar with road racing and then later on putting it back on. If i feel that i need it.

 

def cheaper and more fun on street. only problem is people telling me its gonna b too powerful. this is gonna go in a gutted eg hatch. will have all supporting mods before i push for more power, suspensin brakes and tires

 

We only do circit racing on boosted hondas.
Most of our cars have something between 320 till nearly 500 hp.

I can definetly tell it is awsome fun but it is damn expansive to build it to last long time.

You have to think about a very !!! good setup. Circit racing differs a lot from normal daily driving and drag race.

There are a lot of things you need to take care of.

You should spend time and money into chassi, suspension, wheels, tires and tranny to make your car able to handle it.

But at the end it is a nice to have a car than is able to compeed with PorscheGT3, CorvetteC6, BMWM3 and M5 and so on....

If you need ideas for the turbosetup let me know or feel free to ask. We got a lot of experience therewith.

For suspension components you should ask Kiwi.

Kevin

 

Why not just run whatever engine is in there now? Who cares how fast it is if you are starting out?

I run a stock D15b2 in a '91 civic. Slow? You bet it is slow.

Horse-drawn carriages sometimes pass me on the front straight.

Does it suck sometimes to be passed by everyone else? Absolutely. But if you are out there getting some seat time, does it really matter?

 

On the other hand what Honda Matchie said is more than true.
For beginning it is ok to have a car that is not so fast.

I started circuit racing with a 450hp civic (I own a shop and build such cars) and I can tell you that sucked.
Car was way to fast and aggressive for my driving skills....

 

i fully understand that stock is very good as start. my current car is a 2000 si. basic bolt o, ksport coilovers, hawk hp plus pads, azenis tires( yea i no but there good and cheap for starters.) but i maxed the tires out i want to go faster but cant cuz they start to slide when i push more and more. in the corners i can basically catch anything in my class the straights its wut kills me having the 250whp will b more then enough. the 350 will only b on streets or occasional drag

 

So why the need for more power when all you need to do is upgrade your tires?
Your losing traction with the falkens because they are more a street tire than track IMO.
More grip, you get the next grippiest tire and see how you can handle the car then.
A faster car does not make a driver faster. I have seen and said this like twice in the same month... I have seen some very skilled drivers make a slow car do some amazing things.
IM sure you can push your car harder if you simply change your tires and a few other things.
I dont see a few events as an "experienced" driver.
Back up a bit and rethink you stragedy. Your probably headed for a nice accident with a faster car.
Improve your craft at being a better driver first.

 

i understand that. ive seen good times in stock cars where the drivers were just good. my last instructor went from boost back to all motor cuz he says it was more fun with less power. for now the eg wont b read to run til maybe end of next year. ill prolly be another 2 til it gets built i wanna drive it without all that power so i can get used to it. but if i planning on buying a swap i need to no where im goin to get the right one. so far the gsr is looking good.

 

I'd do whichever is more reliable inside your budget. I'd take 20 less hp if I don't have to work on it after every session any day.

I agree with everyone else that said that you should worry more about seat time than hp though.

 

Maybe meet halfway and do a K swap if you're really needing the power?

 

I wish boost was a good way to make some hp for a track car...anything around 230-240whp sound awesome.

apart from running the biggest radiator possible, and a motor oil cooler...what should be done in order to go the safe route ? I've been having secret dreams of a non vtec boosted motor to play in the big league recently

 

Once you start pushing over 200ftlbs the normally rock solid B series trans starts to show it's weak points with repeated abuse on a road course.

X2 on trying a better set of tires first

 

set up your suspension correctly and the falkens will perform better than you think.
I have had passengers flabbergasted at how well they stick.

You are most likely suffering from understeer. So do more research and learn how to eliminate it and balance your car correctly. You will be surprised at the results. If you throw more power at your drive wheels which are already struggling to keep traction while pulling the car forward AND turning , the sliding will only get worse. Setup the chasis first, then once you have that sorted and put better rubber on, you will be passing some heavy hitters with your momentum.

guaranteed.

 

o i no i get people suprised of how ell my suspension does and tires stick. my last instructor will chime in soon i hope. lol i had to pass a yest from my event to be able to run solo with a event organiser and he was amazed how well the tires and car held on the track. it was my 2nd event.

 

idk if everyone read this all the way but this build is not gonna be on my em1.. its been my daily for almost 5 years that i started tracking finally. soon to be sold though.

 

I would go the NA route.

Yes boost will make more power with less money, but in the end your just adding more bolts/parts that could possibly fail. I like to drive to the track, beat on it, and still be able to drive home without being worried.

 

I'm his last instructor ... personally Tom,I'd put a bit of time in the carwith a stock ls or b20. It'd be a hoot. Then decide. Like I told you, I got Significantly more consistent and fast with 150 whp vs. 300. And most importantly, it was MORE fun. I will be re-turbo'd next year sometime.

 

it gonna be running with a stock gsr for awhile next season. boost wont come in for awhile maybe winter build next year so i will have some time to get used to it and c if i like it.. believe me i thought about what u said and did goin from 300 to 150 and having more fun. its just ive never had a quick car and it one of those things i wanna do. on the track it will b turned down on power. might just run it at 200 get comfortable and go up some more. im not saying im gonna run it at 350 whp on track that be suicide

 

Turbo cars are fun and exciting
problems, heating/cooling, etc. Limited room, alot of custom fab involved.

Even 200 whp is alot of power for a novice, I would stick to what you have and work your way up.

I went out with Adam who was also my instructor in stock d16y7, I learned alot in a low hp car with decent brakes/tires/suspension.

Tom, you feel like you need a higher horsepower car because your tires are greasing...You have to remember, higher horsepower cars need sticky tires. Got to have experience for sticky tires.
Don't worry about going fast, your Si is the perfect canidate to learn on and progress on.

My suggestions for you,
Better Brakes
Better Tires
A bucket seat will also help you feel your car a little more and keep you secure. With the bucket you will need a cage/harness bar & harness.

Be ready to spend alot of money...

 

really?


lmao. yeah it is bad when stock mazda3 and minis have to lift when they give you the point by.


yes and yes. and well another yes.

this would be a good person to listen to about 615s. i think he ran them for like 2 or 3 years and is pretty good behind the wheel. he is also good with feedback from the car so his experience/opinions on the tire subject is great. i even think he puts close to the 200 mark down to his wheels.


also having dil be a local to you would be a great resource. he drives the wheels off of a moderately "slower" car.

my opinion is like adam and dil said. keep what you have or something you can swap a b series in. upgrade your tires and brakes then spend the money on seat time. that will be more fun than hiding your weak points with "extra power".

 

Like dirty pointed out it's all driver.

At the Sebring Time Attack Chris Rado ran I think 2:16-2:18 best lap times in a car with 1000hp. Just as an example Bermeister from flying lizard was putting down 2:06 a year ago in his 911 with 400ish hp. That's maybe not a fair comparison but you get the point. Start with what you have, get better tires then go from there.

Hell I ran 2:46 on street tires there which is nothing special but that was in a civic.

 

I like all the good advice I'm seeing in here

A turbo car WILL be less reliable. It's part of the game. No way around this unless you spend relatively absurd amounts of money and do everything 1000% right the first time. And even then, chances are really good you'll still be less reliable than a stock LS/B20. If you cheap out, that reliability goes downhill exponentially (unless you're a cheapskate wizard like the Jabaays ). As a novice, you don't want to have to worry about your car, you want to focus on learning how to drive. Also as a novice, don't bother comparing yourself or your laptimes to other people in your group. Guess what? They're all ALSO novices, and most likely have no idea what they're doing.

You will undoubtedly have more fun in a slower car driven very fast than a fast car driven moderately slow.

 

talking about me again.