Hello everyone,

first to start off, a buddy of mine picked up a daily beater, we were lead to believe that it was a running car but upon arrival "it didn't want to drive anymore" and was smoking and sputtering but held idle , so we ended up purchasing the complete rolling shell for pretty cheap. The car is a 1990 automatic DA with 200k on the clock.

Here's the thing, we've tried almost everything in the book!!! the car cranks but does not want to fire, it'll stumble for a bit but we can't get it to idle.

Things we've done since we've gotten the car:

-Replaced the dizzy with a known working one
- Coil and igniter were tested and passed

-Replaced ignition (plugs and so on...twice!)

-Rebuilt the head , car was billowing LOTS of white smoke when we first got it
-all gaskets/seals replaced with new exhaust valves

-Cleaned injectors

-Adjust the valve train

-Compression Test ~145psi all across on a cold motor

-Checked all grounds: one on the valve cover, one running below the battery and the other on the coolant neck

-Checked and cleared all codes ( 1 was for EGR and the other for Igntion Signal)

-Reset the Timing

as well as the basic maintenance stuff. we get spark, we get fuel and we have compression, but it still wont fire?!? our main relay is still good, it clicks every time and we hear the slight hum of the fuel pump as well, fuel pressure is good and our injectors are cleaned, timing is on and now we have NO clue whats going on as to why its not starting. There is a cam holder bolt on the exhaust side that is broken above cylinder 2 but i'm not sure if that would hold it back from starting. Also i replaced the plugs with new ones today and they were as black as can be, #2 was soaked in oil but that might have been from us taking the valve cover off so many times to do the timing over and over again.

When we first checked the car out, it started fine but just didnt want to drive, we later found out that the dizzy was destroyed and thats why it crapped on us on the test drive, the HG and Valves were replaced and i believe that solved the smoking, now we just cant get it to start. It wants to start and it cranks nice and healthy, but no fire. can anyone help?? i've spent countless ours on HT trying everyones solutions but nothing, also tried starting fluid and still nothing. if anyone has any input or help please let me know, we gotta get this thing on the road !!!! Thanks all!

Edit: here's some quick picks of when we pulled off the head, not sure if its supposed to look like this so hopefully some useful input will help, thanks!

 

dont wanna sound like a d*ck, but u make sure the spark plug wires are installed correctly? i made that mistake in the past on my old 92 da.. that or the ignition rotor is messed up? or even the contacts on the distributor cover?

 

None taken, any suggestions at this point are appreciated to avoid overlooking anything. For the plugs and wires, they have been triple and quadruple checked ( starting from bottom left going clockwise : 1-3-4-2) we've switched ignition components, cleaned caps and dizzys so I would assume I can write those off, also all components have been checked with a voltage meter to insure function ( and we've taken them to autozone with the same result)... What else could it be? Blown block? Worn seals?

 

Did you jump the service connector when you set the timing?

 

Service connector? What's the significance of doing so? Is that the one under the passenger side kick panel? didn't see anything regarding that process , just did it the way everyone else does.

 

Seems like either a dead ECU.

 

think so? what would make you say that? has anyone had any experience with this? thanks!

 

The ECU's in modern cars adjust the ignition timing with RPM, throttle, temp, etc. It takes a certain amount of time for the explosion in each cylinder to occur, which is why ignition is set in degrees before top dead center. If it takes, say, 1 millisecond for the charge in the cylinder to explode, then you start the explosion 1ms before the crank arm has passed TDC and reached the exact point in its rotation to be pushed down again. Now, the faster the crank is spinning, the further it will travel during that 1ms. If the computer didn't advance the timing with (at least) RPM, the piston would become further and further down in its stroke when the explosion pushes it down, causing a fractional power loss proportional to RPM.

Jumping the service connector usually found near the ECU stops the ECU from adjusting the timing so that you can set "base timing," or where the ECU starts from before adjusting. Base ignition timing is what we set with a timing light and what you still need to do.

 

ahhh well explained , thanks! is the service connector green? and how many pins in that harness? the reason i ask is because theres a few harnesses under there and i dont want to fudge with the wrong one, thanks dsp!

 

i believe its a 2-wire brown connector that u jump when doing your timing...i dont know if you have tried this but check to see if your getting fuel to your fuel rail... reason i say that it is that you could have a clogged fuel filter or weak fuel pump.... ive had a DA before and i've gone thru 2 ECU's ... it would crank and not start...good luck hope this helps

 

the ecu in this car still flashes codes, would a good ecu flash codes as well or would it just be dead? we'll try jumping the harness, but if thats not the case then does anyone else have any other suggestions? definitely getting fuel to the rail, its a strong solid spray.

 

it wouldnt hurt to swap ecu's with someone you know just to see if it starts

 

oreo, when your ecu's were dead, were they still flashing codes?

 

definitely will give it a shot, it'll be hard to find another ecu of the same type in my area , but if that doesnt work... what else could it be??


also, does anyone know if a Manual PR4 ecu will work on an Auto?

 

Beginning of the week bump!

 

Sorry if I missed it, but I do not see that you have confirmed that you have fuel and spark, [in the cylinder].

Try this simple test, turn ign. switch to run, [not start] confirm the fuel pump primes, [runs for a few sec.] if so, crank engine to start, give it 2-3 tries, [a few sec. at a time] immediately remove a spark plug, is it wet with gas, does it smell of gas, can you light the end of the plug with a lighter, [quick flash], if so plug spark plug back into spark plug lead, ground plug to engine and have someone crank engine and look for spark on the plug, do you have spark, is it a good strong spark?
Keep your face away from the open spark plug hole. 94

 

hi, yes we have fuel , spark and compression! i'll try the spark plug test, we recently replaced the spark plugs with newer ones because the first new pair we put became really black. i'll try the fuel test you mentioned, last time i just pulled the rail and made sure we were getting pressure and spray. the spark we have is strong as well. anyone else?? Thanks!!

 

still no luck? yes, ECU can still be the culprit even if it is flashing codes.. i purchased a messed up p73 ecu in the past that did the same thing u speak of.. thankfully i was able to get my money back.. btw, what codes are you getting from ur current ECU? and i believe that the manual pr4 should allow the motor to start, but it was also throw CEL's due to the auto trans.. (pls correct me if im wrong)

 

thanks ninja. still no luck. would i be able to drive with a manual pr4 on an auto though? i was getting codes for the EGR and the Ignitor Signal, i fixed both and now all codes are clear, but the ecu still flashed the codes, ill try another ecu, hopefully i can find one, thanks!

 

my guess will be bad gasoline. i had bad gas in my other teg and it would not start. it drove me nuts cause i thought i had all 3 essentials for my car to start.

if its your gas. drain it. put good gas and crank it for a while cause theres is still bad gas in the fuel lines that go from the gas tank to the fuel filter that needs to pass before u get to the good fuel.

if its not the gas make absolute sure u have a spark..

How did u test spark?
How did u test if ur getting fuel?

 

the gas is good in it, i had some gas in a gas can i use for my ruckus and its straight from the pump.

i tested spark a variety of ways, first is pulling it out and letting the current jump onto a screwdriver or what not, the second way is putting the screwdriver into the wire and having a secondary metal object (ground) perpendicular and having it find ground, the spark is normal i guess, but it is in no way weak.

i tested fuel by checking the fuel pump(voltage) + sound, then making sure the main relay is good, then pulling the fuel rail as well as injectors. getting fuel as well.

this is driving me nuts !!! the only thing i can think of and havent tried is using another ecu, and the only reason i havent done it is because i cant find one, lol.

 

If this is true then your off timing

Use a timing light to see if your igniting right also

 

that could be the problem, but since i've tried all of the solutions to those issues i need to start looking elsewhere, ie: the ecu or what not.

and the car doesnt idle for me to use a timing light, can you check with a timing light without the car running?

 

While its turning over

 

I say manually turn the crank till your TDC, and the try. I can now say this it could be your ECU.